Penalty charge for no ID?

[openforbusines]

I was travelling on my usual journey home from school in Goodmayes towards Southend on the Greater Anglia service. As I am 15, I have my child return ticket on me, valid and all. I've never had any problems with ticket inspectors before, ever, during my year of non stop weekday return journeys. The ticket inspector entered the carriage, asked for tickets and I showed mine. He stared for longer than any other inspector I had seen, then asked me for ID and DOB. I told him that I was born in 1997 and I do not carry any ID apart from my 11 - 15 Oyster Photocard. I showed him it and he told me that it was not a valid ID and he did not believe that I was under 16, even though the oyster photocard is available to 11 - 15 year olds ONLY (It says in bold "11-15"). I was then given a warning and told that he would "let me off" this time but will give me a penalty charge (Which I assume is very large) for no valid ticket next time he sees me without ID. He then suggested that I bring ID such as a birth certificate. This is where I got really ****ed off, I mean who carries their birth certificate to school, though I tried to keep smiling as to not cause anyone else on the carriage to stare at me. It completely ruined my journey and embarrassed me in front of the whole carriage. I have skimmed over the NRCoC and any other bits on the GreaterAnglia site and none of it mentions that I am required to have ID. My question for you guys is is he allowed to do this and what are my rights in this kind of situation, or if it were to progress to a penalty?

Edit: Sorry about the bad language, didn't know whether it would be censored or not on here.

 

[causton]

A standard penalty fare is £20. If you take your birth certificate and a passport-size photo to a ticket office they should be able to give you a child photocard which expires on the eve of your 16th birthday, which should avoid any confrontation until then.

Just so you know, the Oyster 11-15 card expires on the 30th September *after* you turn 16 (until after you leave secondary school) So you could have turned 16 yesterday and would get almost a year's free use out of it still

 

[barrykas]

Whilst there is no requirement for under 16s to carry ID to accompany normal rail tickets, you do have to have a photocard for a weekly or longer season ticket.

It is, however, recommended to obtain a (free) Child photocard if you look older. You should be able to get one from any Ticket Office. You'll need a passport size photo and proof of age (such as a passport, birth certificate or NHS medical card). If you're under 14, the card will be valid for two years from date of issue. If you're 14 or older, it'll expire the day before your 16th birthday.

 

[jon0844]

Hopefully your mates know your age, so it wasn't too embarrassing.. a member of staff perhaps wanting to show off his power.

What's the point threatening a penalty fare next time you're seen without ID? Yes, you probably should carry ID (but I'd have thought the Oyster was pretty good as they're not handed out without checks?) but you can't be given a PF if you're legally entitled to a child ticket!

There's no offence committed, nor any intent to defraud. I am pretty sure the revenue officer knows this too. Did you perhaps answer back in a sarcastic fashion or something else (and not that I'd necessarily blame you!) to prompt him to suddenly act up?

 

[openforbusines]

Hopefully your mates know your age, so it wasn't too embarrassing.. a member of staff perhaps wanting to show off his power.

What's the point threatening a penalty fare next time you're seen without ID? Yes, you probably should carry ID (but I'd have thought the Oyster was pretty good as they're not handed out without checks?) but you can't be given a PF if you're legally entitled to a child ticket!

There's no offence committed, nor any intent to defraud. I am pretty sure the revenue officer knows this too. Did you perhaps answer back in a sarcastic fashion or something else (and not that I'd necessarily blame you!) to prompt him to suddenly act up?

I actually handled it better than I expected, I think he was just being difficult.

Thanks for the fast replies guys. I will get a child rail card as soon as possible, but what should I do for the next few days since I don't think I'll be able to get one tomorrow and if I encounter him again he'll notice it's me. (I am very distinguishable ) I suppose I could try and find my passport, but otherwise should I tell him that I'm not required to carry one and that since I am legally entitled to travel with a child ticket, he cannot proceed with any penalties? I guess I'll have to for the time being.

 

[soil]

He can certainly TRY to penalise you.

I would say that you are genuinely aged 15 and sorry if you don't believe me, but I don't have a passport or a birth certificate to show you anyway, but you can check with my school if you want.

If he tries to ask for money I would say that you are not carrying any and have no other means of getting home.

 

[bb21]

You cannot be penalised for not carrying ID with you. It would be absurd otherwise.

In the meanwhile if you encounter a difficult RPI again, cooperate fully if you can. If asked for your name and address, provide the correct ones otherwise this becomes a much more serious matter. I am sure you will be alright.

Stay calm. These things happen in life and there is no need to get wound up.

I would strongly advise against carrying your passport or birth certificate with you to school.

 

[ert47]

Just wondering, don't 11-15 Oystercards have your photo on them?

EDIT: Ah, it does... :/

 

[barrykas]

Just wondering, don't 11-15 Oystercards have your photo on them?

They do but, as stated earlier in the thread, they expire on 30th September following the academic year in which you turn 16, so someone could turn 16 on 1st September 2012 and continue to hold an 11-15 card until 30th September 2013.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps they should have the DOB on them too. Then they'd be a valid form of ID for other travel use.

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

 

[cuccir]

It's slightly strange that proof of age isn't demanded, but that seems to be the case. The post below isn't to defend the guard, but is for your broader information:

If you're coming up to 16, you're going to have to get used to the idea that people will want to see ID from you over the next 10 years or so, as you pass out of being entitled for certain things, and enter into being entitled for others.

If you're not willing/able to bring something like a passport out with you, then getting a Pass-accredited ID is probably a good idea - see their website: http://www.pass-scheme.org.uk/index.php?cID=1

 

[transportphoto]

Don't worry, nothing can be done against someone who has done no wrong. You are still entitled to child fares.

I have had to get a child rate photo card after a run in with an RPI on the Croydon Tramlink; here's a slightly newer version of what I have:

Just pop along to any rail ticket office and ask for a 'Child Rate Photocard', show them proof of age (Preferably photographic) and give them a mug shot of your self. Passport sized, but doesn't have to be passport standard.

TP