Penalty fare cost increase

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by mono1989, 6 Jul 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mono1989

    mono1989 Member

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    2 Jul 2013
    Location:
    Three Bridges
    Evening all.

    After I completed my authorised collectors training last week I was advised tha the amount of the PF was to increase to £80 or 4 times the standard fare.

    Just wondering when this would come into effect?
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,951
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    No idea about the date, but I think bringing PFs into line with the TfL version has been sort of expected for a few years, and I think is about due. When DfT put this out to consultation around 2009/10 I think it was proposed that £50 (reduced to £25 if paid within three weeks) might become the going rate.

    TfL's PF is currently at £80 (but reduced to £40 if paid within 21 days) so is it likely that this prompt payment discount will also be used on National Rail?
     
  4. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    That could make things interesting, I wonder if the TOC's 'unofficial' penalty fares will rise too ?
     
  5. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

    Messages:
    5,320
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2011
    Four times the Anytime fare would be an extremely punitive level given that penalty fares are given when a passenger has made a mistake.
     
  6. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    17,951
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    That's why I'm asking if it is likely that the headline PF will be reduced if paid promptly, like on TfL (as with most local authority parking penalties as well).

    So what we might see is £80 (or 4x) being the scary version, and £40 (or 2x) being the reduced rate.
     
  7. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

    Messages:
    5,320
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2011
    I believe a penalty fare on national rail can only be given if payment is made immediately although it is possible to pay an amount equal to the immediate fare due if the balance is paid within 21 days.
     
  8. tony6499

    tony6499 Member

    Messages:
    810
    Joined:
    27 Sep 2012
    I think it is more to punish the low level 'mistakes' , 'forgetting' to pay a £2/3 fare becomes more of a risk at £80 than it does at £20
     
  9. furlong

    furlong Established Member

    Messages:
    1,648
    Joined:
    28 Mar 2013
    Location:
    Reading
    I think a passenger may be assumed to be carrying enough money to pay their normal fare for the journey, so this forms (in practice) the minimum payment - authorised collectors may exercise their discretion and not require the minimum payment (defined elsewhere as the "full single fare") immediately.
     
    Last edited: 7 Jul 2014
  10. robert7111a

    robert7111a Established Member

    Messages:
    1,789
    Joined:
    24 Apr 2014
    Location:
    PTSO or platform depending on the weather
    Guess this will work like parking fines then...you get a "discount" if you pay early.

    But if you buy a ticket in the first place, you have nothing to worry about
     
  11. RPI

    RPI Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    6 Dec 2010
    It's going up to £50 or 4x the sds reduced by 50% if paid within 21 days
     
  12. thedbdiboy

    thedbdiboy Member

    Messages:
    398
    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    It isn't possible to align the TOC and TfL schemes as the TfL scheme doesn't have a multiplier - it is a straight £80.
     
  13. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,876
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    More material is that each uses completely separate legislation. No TfL group fares are over £20 AFAIK so the multiplier would never be engaged.

    Edit: on rereading, this post makes not very much sense. Please ignore.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2014
  14. Pumbaa

    Pumbaa Established Member

    Messages:
    4,863
    Joined:
    19 Feb 2008
    This is correct.
     
  15. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,945
    Joined:
    1 Feb 2009
    Location:
    UK
    So, the PF is really only going up to £25, and remains at 2x the standard fare? (I am assuming people would be rather mad to not pay within 21 days).

    Is this enough? I don't think so, and thus we will continue to see TOCs wherever possible (i.e. having suitably trained staff) going for the out of court settlement option and ignoring PFs as much as possible.

    It really should have been £80 with the 50% reduction, or 4x the fare. With the 'whichever is the greater' rule, that would help stop some people getting charged what might be seen as an acceptable risk for being caught every now and then.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2014
  16. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

    Messages:
    8,831
    Joined:
    12 Sep 2013
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    Not without a proper independent appeals process it shouldn't.
     
  17. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

    Messages:
    5,320
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2011
    Remember PF's are given for mistakes, where fare evasion or fraud is suspected then it should be reported for prosecution.

    4 times the anytime fare seem high to me for a mistake.
     
  18. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,876
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    What could be a bigger concern is whether someone lodging an appeal will forfeit his right to the lower-rate payment if the appeal is turned down.
     
  19. Qwerty133

    Qwerty133 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,874
    Joined:
    7 Oct 2012
    Location:
    Leicester/Sheffield
    What's the highest possible penalty fare?
    Let's start with £318 under the new system for Leicester to London.
     
  20. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    9,706
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    May be may be not.

    There are however a very high number of 'mistakes' that happen across the network every single day, and just look at this forum for how many of them are similar to each other too.

    Surely the whole country isnt thick as pig**** and forget to buy a ticket before they travel? Or their railcard? Or buy a child fare?

    Ive said many times on here that a much higher PF is much more of a deterrent than 20 quid should people get caught for their 'mistake'.
     
  21. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

    Messages:
    2,957
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2013
    Is Leicester to London in a Penalty Fare zone?
     
  22. Clip

    Clip On Moderation

    Messages:
    9,706
    Joined:
    28 Jun 2010
    All EMT is a penalty fare route isnt it?
     
  23. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

    Messages:
    9,474
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Yorkshire
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page