Penalty fare forgetting to touch in Oyster Card - can I be prosecuted?

[rdj]

I was 2 weeks ago given a fine for not touching in my Oyster Card. the fine was 20. However the person giving the fine could see it was not the first time I had forgotten to touch in.

I was just wondering if I am liable for prosecution. I phone and they said that as long as I paid the fine I am okay. I then phoned the payment line and they also said that once I pay the fine I should be okay. They said if I was going to be prosecuted then I would have been read my rights on the spot and been given a different form to fill out. Is this true? I don't want any nasty surprises in the post. please help

 

[bb21]

Why did you not touch in?

 

[rdj]

Because I am an idiot

 

[rdj]

I just haven't touched in from Hornsey on several occasions. I have paid the fine of £20 but was just wondering will it be taken further. I was not read any rights on the spot and the £20 penalty fare was all I was handed.

 

[MikeWh]

I was today given a fine by First Capital Connect for not touching in my Oyster Card at Hornsey on the way to Highbury and Islington. the fine was 20. However the lady who gave me the fine could see it was not the first time I had not touched in at Hornsey.

Did she comment about other incomplete journeys or are you just paranoid because you do (did) this every day? Was Highbury & Islington your destination, or do you then touch in on the platform validators before joining the Victoria line? If this is the case then it is unlikely that she will have seen any other incomplete journeys. The card only holds details of the last 8 journeys, sometimes fewer if they involve multiple legs.

I was just wondering if I am liable for prosecution. I phoned First Capital Connect and they said that as long as I paid the fine I am okay. I then phoned the payment line and they also said that once I pay the fine I should be okay. They said if I was going to be prosecuted then I would have been read my rights on the spot and been given a different form to fill out. Is this true? I don't want any nasty surprises in the post. please help

£20 is a penalty fare (not a fine, though I know it feels like one). That is the end of the matter once it is paid. Be thankful it was not a LU RPO who stopped you as then the penalty fare would have been £80, reduced to £40 if paid promptly.

 

[rdj]

She commented on that she could see that my journey is always from highbury and islington to paddington and then paddington to highbury and islington, when I clearly get on and off at Hornsey. She said something about prosecution but she didn't say I had been prosecuted and she didn't read me my rights. I wish I had got more information from her but I just wanted to get out of there. Is it true they have to read you your rights there and then?

 

[maniacmartin]

I suspect what you may have been doing is using a pay as you go Oyster, and travelling from from Hornsey to central London, but only touching in at the platform validators on the Victoria line at Highbury & Islington, so that you only pay zones 1-2 not 1-3. If this is the case, then I'd advise you to not do this in future because the consequences if caught again could be severe.

Unless there's some other reason why you often don't touch in at the start of this journey that you'd like to share with us?

 

[Mojo]

If you've been given a Penalty fare and you pay it; then you've been let off very lightly. The law does allow for a PF to be refunded and then a summons to be issued, but I'd say this is unlikely. If any details were taken then they could search your Oyster history and attempt to pin multiple journeys against you other than the journey on this date. If they did this then you could sign for multiple offences to be taken into consideration.

 

[bb21]

I agree with Mike. Once you pay your £20, it should be the end of this matter.

That said, there is nothing to stop them looking into your history and investigating your travel pattern, especially if she made a note of your Oyster card details. If you are caught again you could be in very big trouble if their records flag it up.

Unless you have good reasons not to touch in at the correct station (and fares being too expensive is not a valid excuse), then I suggest that you take this incident as a serious warning.

so that you only pay zones 1-2 not 1-3.

... and it is a Zones 1-2 LU fare compared to a Zones 1-3 mixed fare. Quite a big difference.

 

[rdj]

I'm aware that what I have done is wrong, I'm not trying to claim otherwise. I'm not a bad person, I just did something stupid.

I just want to know if I am liable for prosecution considering the information I have stated above.

 

[bb21]

I'm aware that what I have done is wrong, I'm not trying to claim otherwise. I'm not a bad person, I just did something stupid.

Stupidity or else, it doesn't matter now you are caught. A magistrate will not decide whether you are guilty on whether you think you are a good person. Take heed.

I just want to know if I am liable for prosecution considering the information I have stated above.

You are, although if you pay the £20, it is unlikely.

No one can tell you whether the train company will want to look into it. It will be their decision. Given that there is a definite pattern if they decide to investigate, unless you can give them good legitimate reasons why you touched in at Highbury & Islington, there is always the possibility that they want to take further action. No one can guarantee you either way.

 

[rdj]

Okay, thanks for all your help, much appreciated.

I know, I wasn't trying to say that they will take pity on me because I'm not a bad guy, I just didn't want people on this thinking I felt I was hard done by.

I just really can't afford further prosecution, it would kill me. I've just been told they need to read me my rights there and then, but you chaps seem to think they can still charge me more which is what I thought could happen.

Thanks again for all your help. Does anyone know how long it usually takes for a letter to come through? I am pretty certain I am going to receive one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also does anyone know how much people usually get charged for offences like this?

 

[bb21]

They have up to six months from the date of the offence iirc to start prosecution proceedings.

To be honest the chances of this going any further than the Penalty Fare you have been charged with is low, as long as you pay this £20. They have the option to investigate further, however this is not something done very often. Should this be the case, they will have to give you time to respond, and then decide whether to go ahead with the prosecution, all within the six-month period. Normally when you are interviewed, past experiences suggest that the letter can take anything up to six weeks to arrive under normal circumstances, longer if there is a heavy caseload at the prosecutions department of the relevant train company. (You should have a rough idea as to the likelihood of further actions depending on whether your Oyster is registered, whether the RPI took your details, etc.)

It is more likely that if they decide to investigate, the details will be held on file and if you are caught again, you will have the book thrown at you.

As I said, we can't guarantee anything as it is entirely FCC's decision. This is just to given you some ideas.

Did you pay your £20 on the spot?

 

[W230]

If you can't afford prosecution then the cheapest way to avoid it is start paying for your entire journey (if not already of course ) and make sure you continue to do so.

Not sure what you're asking in your last post? If you mean what punishment can you get for intent to avoid paying your fare then I believe it can be up to £1000 coupled with a criminal record.

But that does not sound like that is happening to you. So pay the £20 and move on.

 

[rdj]

Thanks. I paid £5 on the spot and I phoned the payment services when I got to work and paid the other £15. I didn't have my bank details or card on my person when they stopped me so couldn't pay the full on the spot, but I wish I could have.

My Oyster Card is registered which is why I am worried as it does make it easier for them, and my details were taken down. I guess I will just have to see.

 

[michael769]

I just really can't afford further prosecution, it would kill me. I've just been told they need to read me my rights there and then

You have been told wrong by someone who watches to many US cop shows.

, but you chaps seem to think they can still charge me more which is what I thought could happen.

Not for this journey as the PF means the fare was paid. The courts take a dim view of trying to prosecute someone who has already paid some form of civil penalty.

However they may report any suspicions they have for further analysis of your travel history - and that could result in other similar journeys being uncovered. Oyster does have a team that carries out this type of investigation.

Also does anyone know how much people usually get charged for offences like this?

Evidence of persistent season/travel card fraud is viewed more severely and is more likely to go to court and result in a fine at the higher end of the scale.

Prison is a possibility for the more serious repeat offences.

 

[rdj]

Well it was the payment office who told me the information of having to be read my rights, but I did think it sounded a bit 'US cop show'-esque.

Hopefully it won't go as far as prison, that would be just about the most terrible thing I could imagine as an outcome.

I assume the suspicions of my travel history will be reported from what I could gather from the lady, but she wasn't very clear and I didn't really think to stick around at the time.

A lesson well learnt, I just hope it isn't too costly.

 

[island]

Prison doesn't come into it for a first conviction, and paying a penalty fare is almost always the end of the matter, but I echo everything everyone else has said and urge you to stop fare-dodging in the future.

 

[oversteer]

At the moment you have settled the matter by paying the penalty fare.

Without a statement saying something like "I admit I have been doing this every day for the last year" it is unlikely that they have much other reason to prosecute you.

However, continually reiterating on this forum that you have intentionally evaded the fare (a criminal offense) on multiple occasions might just be the catalyst that makes someone in FCC's Prosecutions department delve a little deeper and link everything together and result in a prosecution. There can't have been that many people with a registered Oyster card given a penalty fare this morning by a female FCC RPI at Highbury & Islington coming from Hornsey. I assume you live in Hornsey and that's what went on the penalty fare form..

I pay shedloads a month for my Travelcard and have no interest in subsidising you, so please pay your fare every time you travel.

 

[rdj]

I didn't intend to indicate that. I've just made a mistake. Thanks.

 

[DelayRepay]

I didn't intend to indicate that. I've just made a mistake. Thanks.

You haven't made a mistake. A mistake would be forgetting to touch in one morning because you were distracted. What you have done is defrauded FCC out of payment for each journey you have made.

You have received some good advice from this forum but please don't expect sympathy as well.

 

[W230]

Well it was the payment office who told me the information of having to be read my rights, but I did think it sounded a bit 'US cop show'-esque.

I highly doubt that the payment office will know how the RPIs conduct their business. They are responsible for sorting your payment and won't be trained in evidencing prosecutions.

You can just imagine a prosecution ending up in court and someone saying, "Well I spoke to the man in payments and he said not to worry about the ticket because they didn't read me my rights"...

 

[DelayRepay]

Just to put this point to bed. When you are "read your rights" you are being warned that whatever you say may be noted and presented as evidence to the court. The fact that you were not cautioned will mean it is less likely that FCC will be able to use whatever you said to the RPI as evidence, if they do wish to proceed with court action.

However, it is likely that if they do investigate further they will contact you for a statement and/or ask you to attend an interview under caution. That interview will be where they gather any evidence.

 

[rdj]

Thanks. Just to clarfiy, this is not a long term thing. It is just a couple of times recently because of negligence. I usually have a travel card which should come up on my history too if checked. I wasn't looking for sympathy, it was stupid of me. Again, thanks for the information

 

[DelayRepay]

In that case I can only echo the advice other posters have given - absolutly make sure this doesn't happen again (especially since at least one RPI will recognise you!) and keep your fingers crossed that it goes no further. If you do receive a letter I would suggest coming back here for further advice at that stage, before you reply.

 

[455driver]

All FCC have to do is look at the OP oyster card record and see that they regularly make journeys from a station miles away from where they live (but on a direct line) and they could start asking some very awkward questions which the OP might struggle to answer and so they could prosecute for all those, unlikely though at the moment.

If the OP is caught again they will almost definitely look into it as your PF will be on record now.