Pendolino derailment at Greyrigg

[Donny Dave]

Rest in peace.

 

[Tom]

R.I.P

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6391633.stm

 

[Tom]

If anyone is still watching News 24, it won't be much use as they're now simulcasting with BBC World.

 

[Derek Kaye]

Theres still the press conference at 2am to look forwards to.

 

[Tom]

True.

[tv pres fan mode]

Depends how much BBC World want to pick up on it though, as basically that broadcast can now be seen by about 53m people across the world.


[/tv pres fan mode]

 

[Derek Kaye]

Just been a shot of the front coach on it's side

 

[Death]

Hail all! ad:
First things first, my sincere condolences to the family and friends of all those involved in this tragedy...And wishing a speedy recovery to anyone injured. Our prayers are with you at this time.

I only just found out about this an hour ago when logging out of Hotmail and seeing the article header on the MSN main page. I did spot a couple of Pendolinos on the telly down at the pub earlier last night at about 22:15 or so...But there was too much noise to hear anything, and I just passed it off as a report on more financial troubles at VT! hock:

Anyway, I am rather freaked out by this incident for two distinct reasons concerning things that happened yesterday:

• I managed to find and download a time-lapse video of a Pendolino drivers view from Rugby to Glasgow, and was planning to use it along with some APT-P footage and a Moonsorrow track to create a full-on Hyperspeed train video. The visualisation speed of this video is about 5,000mph or so, and a low-res version can be viewed Here.
  Anyone who knows me well enough will know of my dream of an era of hyperspeed trains, capable of doing San Francisco > New York in 35 minutes...And how such a dream unfavourably relates to this kind of incident.
  
  
• At about 16:00 yesterday, a thought drifted into my mind about how, out of all the rail companies out there, Virgin were the only one to have never endured (To my knowlege) a severe incident...Or indeed, anything worse than bad engineering works and train software problems. Now, almost exactly 28 hours later, what happens? :cry:

Back to the time-lapse video that I was watching: This happens to follow the same route as the derailed train in question, and I've gone through it and taken a few screen grabs of the line in that area. Sadly the screen-grabs don't show too much (The frames in between are transitional, and un-viewable out of context) but they give you an idea of the line layout. Just before the incident site, there are two sets of points (Crossovers) which would tally in with MSNs report that a points failure might be to blame...Although this is a site that also puts a "Pendolino" caption on a photo of a four-car Voyager!

Points before derailment site. About a mile before this point is a 95mph sign.

Following right hander and (3 aspect?) signal.

Entering the curve. Note 4° train cant and ground dropping away on left.

Further around the same curve. Note No Refuges sign in left cess, indicating a possible drop.

Probable derailment site. Note steep drop on outside of bend. Train is now at it's 6° maximum tilt, although an APT-P would be leaning at 9° here whilst traversing the bend at the same speed.

I'm now praying to the Gods like it's going out of fashion...Not only for those affected by this incident, but also praying that my thoughs, emotions and actions yesterday aren't connected with this incident at all...

Farewell...And may no-one else be lost to this tragedy... ad:
>> Colin B <<

 

[carlwestwood]

update: one fatality. An elderly lady.

my thoughts go with her relatives

 

[Death]

Hail again!
Just swung by the VT website and they have a new statement (Issue nr. 3) out:

Urgent Information
24 February 2007, 04:35
Statement Issue No: 3
Statement from Virgin Trains

Serious incident in Cumbria

It is with deep regret that Virgin Trains can confirm that there has been one fatality in an accident that took place shortly after 20:00 on Friday 23 February 2007 near Lambrigg, north of Oxenholme in Cumbria.

The train involved was the 17:15 from London Euston to Glasgow Central, operated by Virgin Trains.

The first thoughts of everyone at Virgin Trains are with the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives or been injured in this terrible accident. We will do whatever we can to offer assistance in the days ahead.

The emergency services have issued the following number for friends or relatives concerned about anybody travelling on the train: 0800 056 0146 (00 44 20 7158 0198 from overseas).

Trains travelling towards Edinburgh and Glasgow will terminate at Lancaster while those travelling from Glasgow/Edinburgh will terminate at Lockerbie. Replacement coaches will link the two stations.

So sadly there is one confirmed fatality. Obviously I'm glad that it isn't one-hundred fatalities, but one life lost in an incident like this is one too many in my opinion.

Farewell... ad:
>> Colin B <<

 

[jamie_]

Just Had a Press Briefing on BBC News 24, Police Inpector in charge has confirmed that the Points are central to the investigation.

 

[Hentis]

Its a shame that someone died and my thoughts go out to the elderly lady and her family.

So no problem with Tilt mechanism thats good Richard B can breathe a sigh of relief. As to the points the media are already stroking on that there were routine maintenance in "that area" last week. Which we know does not contsitute that it was on the set of points in question but the media are putting 2+2 together and coming up with 75!!!

Want to se bad track well take a lookie here!!! The state of just some of the sleepers through Poole Railway station. Email was sent to Network Rail and asked to look at the photos and to call back last week but nothing.

As to what will happen to the unit looks like it could well be an early retirement for 390033. Whether repairs will be santioned or its too badly damaged and uneconomical for repair could we be seeing a new 390054?

Cheers

Hentis

 

[class 313]

The coaches have stayed in very good shape considering what has happened! Maybe this has shown how safe Pendolinos are and how strong they are.

Today, I will be on the southern WCML (Watford - Euston) And will be making a tribute video of Pendolinos...

 

[Coxster]

I think we can all agree that this "plastic" has a major part to play in the thankfully small number of casualties. Especially judging by the shots above!

 

[87015]

Tragic that there has been a fatality - RIP.
Hope those still in hospital pull through...

Just glad it was such an empty service, half full at most from estimates.

 

[mbonwick]

Yes, apparently the pendolino carriges are supposed not to crumple, and therefore preserve occupant space.

My condolances go to the family of the dead. R.I.P



On a slightly more positive note, the embankment is not as big as I was lead to believe

 

[CosherB]

I remember the Colwich crash back in the 1980s where the BR Mk 111s stood up remrkably well to high speed impact. Looks from these pictures like the Pendelino coaches are at least as good, which is reassuring.

Very sad there has been a fatality, but considering this was a high speed derailment, down an embankment, of a pretty full train, it could have been a lot worse.

I wonder how Virgin services will ne impacted by loss of this set? You can't just buy a new one like you'd replace a crashed car.

Very sad

RIP.

CS.

 

[Coxster]

The driver of the train is said to be one of the seriously injured. He was locked in the cab but freed around one hour after the fire service arrived. He is said to have suffered a number of injuries including head and neck but was able to talk to the rescuers whilst being freed.

 

[Humberside]

Firstly condolences to families and friends of the person who died

And I think its amazing how only one person has died. The scene looks awful. But this is down to our excellent train design

I see Mr Crow of the RMT is already speculating the cause is similar to Potters bar. In which case it is deeply suspicious.

Nigel Harris of RAIL has just been having a go at him on Sky News. Apparently Mr Crow didn't even know Network Rail do maintenance in house. Nigel Haris was definetly on 'damage limitation mode' for the railways

How come trains from Scotland at terminating at Lockerbie and not Carlisle? Any chane of the S&C opening up and the engineering works being cancelled?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Any chane of the S&C opening up and the engineering works being cancelled?

Thats what I want to know, as I'm currently at my mates house near Blackburn again.

During the night, I spotted a Super Market go southbound (with lights on the inside the train) at around 00:45, before which a slow moving, very squeeky freight train at 00:10.

Anyone know which 221s came through?

I was wondering why the engineering work along the S&C, and Lockerbie areas couldn't be suspended, since there's probably huge disruption at Preston, Carlisle etc. (I haven't actually been into Preston yet however)

My feelings and condolences go to the family who's lost a relative in this accident. Although, IMO It feels very bad to use the term "accident" at this stage.

How's the driver, TM, RSM, and FC hosts who were all on the train?

I believe the 17:15 ex Euston is a Pendolino Primo service, meaning the staff were probably rushing around, serving food in FC.

 

[Coxster]

Richard Branson has just named and praised the driver.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Richard Branson has just named and praised the driver.

Where?

Like i said, I do hope all the staff and pax go away without serious injuries, but like we have heard, there's unfortunately a single fatality.

I don't want to sound bad, but If this happened 10 years earlier, and didn't involve a Pendolino, or perhaps a Voyager, it would've been far, far worse.

As seen, at Ufton Nervot, the HST's buffet unfortunately jack-knived, splitting the train, and splitting the train.

I know the Pendo has done this, but not on the same scale.

 

[ChrisCooper]

We've had similar accidents in the past with various train types that have involved little or no fatalities. Anyone remember Colwich where one train smashed into another at 100mph with the only fatalities being the driver, and that involved Mk1, 2 and 3, and there have been nuerous high speed derailments with little or no fatalities. At Purley a Mk1 EMU hit another train and fell down an embankment (much bigger than this) with just 4 fatalities. In the fairly high fatality derailments at Potters Bar, Ufton Nervet and Polmont the fact that at least one coach was flung violantly around was the main reason for the deaths, although in all 3 cases coaches remained largely intact. That's not saying the Pendolino didn't stand up well, but no more than most types would have. If anything though, we've probably got the relativly light loading, in particular at the front which was most effected, to thank for the very low death toll and fairly low number of serious injuries.

 

[voyagerdude220]

We've had similar accidents in the past with various train types that have involved little or no fatalities. Anyone remember Colwich where one train smashed into another at 100mph with the only fatalities being the driver, and that involved Mk1, 2 and 3, and there have been nuerous high speed derailments with little or no fatalities. At Purley a Mk1 EMU hit another train and fell down an embankment (much bigger than this) with just 4 fatalities. In the fairly high fatality derailments at Potters Bar, Ufton Nervet and Polmont the fact that at least one coach was flung violantly around was the main reason for the deaths, although in all 3 cases coaches remained largely intact. That's not saying the Pendolino didn't stand up well, but no more than most types would have. If anything though, we've probably got the relativly light loading, in particular at the front which was most effected, to thank for the very low death toll and fairly low number of serious injuries.

When i used this very same train in FC, between London and Preston, it was quite busy. I did get a seat though. The 16:46 ex Euston has also been overcrowded before, due to TM annoyingly having a FC coach declassified when i was on it.

 

[matt]

When i used this very same train in FC, between London and Preston, it was quite busy. I did get a seat though. The 16:46 ex Euston has also been overcrowded before, due to TM annoyingly having a FC coach declassified when i was on it.

So you would rather standard class was dangerously over-crowded. Just because you travel first class stop thinking you are better than everyone else :mad:

 

[voyagerdude220]

So you would rather standard class was dangerously over-crowded. Just because you travel first class stop thinking you are better than everyone else :mad:

Sorry I forgot to mention the crucial fact that when we walked passed the declassified carriage, and SC, at Preston, it was quiet.

SC was not over crowded, and this was confirmed by the FC hosts, who were annoyed with the confusion, with whether it had been declassified or not.

I never said i'm better than everyone else in my post at all did I? [where's the confused icon?]

I just think that people should be aware of Value First singles, which could be used, at a similar price than the saver.

 

[Nick W]

Am I right in thinking the site is after Docker's Graft but before Grayrigg loops?

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=midlandpage28et2.jpg
Sorry i rotated it, saved it and uploaded it but it seems to have "forgotten" the rotation.

 

[richa2002]

We've had similar accidents in the past with various train types that have involved little or no fatalities. Anyone remember Colwich where one train smashed into another at 100mph with the only fatalities being the driver, and that involved Mk1, 2 and 3, and there have been nuerous high speed derailments with little or no fatalities. At Purley a Mk1 EMU hit another train and fell down an embankment (much bigger than this) with just 4 fatalities. In the fairly high fatality derailments at Potters Bar, Ufton Nervet and Polmont the fact that at least one coach was flung violantly around was the main reason for the deaths, although in all 3 cases coaches remained largely intact. That's not saying the Pendolino didn't stand up well, but no more than most types would have. If anything though, we've probably got the relativly light loading, in particular at the front which was most effected, to thank for the very low death toll and fairly low number of serious injuries.

Thank you for putting it into perspective Chris.

 

[Craig]

I just think that people should be aware of Value First singles, which could be used, at a similar price than the saver.

They're nowhere near as flexible as a saver though.

I don't think I'll be participating in this thread any more for the time being. I'd rather wait until the facts are established rather than randomly speculating and worrying about train numbers as some people have been doing.

My thoughts go to the injured and the family of the person who died.

 

[CallySleeper]

Cue the usual "trains are dangerous, no wonder more people tend to fly or drive" etc. rants. Hopefully the aftermath won't be a partial repeat of Potters Bar i.e. nationwide disruption as all the infrastructure is checked under paranoia that faults are more widespread, nationwide apprehension brought about by media coverage that the railways are unsafe, etc.

Although I obviously didn't want to share it, the initial speculation that I heard from the site at about midnight was that it was a points failure.

 

[Mojo]

I was on the 0850 from Euston to Birmingham New Street this morning. It was terminating at Lancaster (and the following services at New Street were too) with buses from Lancaster onwards.

The sleeper was sat in platform one with the loco at the platform end, so I don't know if it actually ran.

Cue the usual "trains are dangerous, no wonder more people tend to fly or drive" etc. rants. Hopefully the aftermath won't be a partial repeat of Potters Bar i.e. nationwide disruption as all the infrastructure is checked under paranoia that faults are more widespread, nationwide apprehension brought about by media coverage that the railways are unsafe, etc.

Interestingly, the majority of comments on BBC's 'Have Your Say' seem quite positive.