Great pictures. I hope that the Pendolinos will become, a more familiar sight too on ECML. Had the pleasure of travelling on one from BHM to GLC on Good Friday.
That is exactly my hope too!I hope they (in there current form) come no where near east coast services as they are not a patch on the mkIII or mkiv
I hope they (in there current form) come no where near east coast services as they are not a patch on the mkIII or mkiv
that is all
I hope they (in there current form) come no where near east coast services as they are not a patch on the mkIII or mkiv
that is all
Wouldn't it be nice if we had some of the East Coast 91's + Mk4 coaches on the WCML. They are so much more comfortable that Pendos.
East Coast are getting IEP to replace the HSTs, some electric, some bi-mode. Nothing wrong with the Mk4's and you don't need tilt on the East Coast, waste of time and money!Personally I love the class 390's.
Travelled on all of them since introduction (9 car) and I find them far more comfortable than East Coast MK4 coaching stock. And they seam to me to be just as roomy. Al ways get back ache on the mk4 stock, I prefer to stand in the Vestibule on them. The BT10 bogey gives a hard ride and the seats just compound the problem.
If I were procuring East Coast's new stock I would replace all the class 91 mk4 sets with 11 car Pendolinos and replace 7 out of 14 of East Coast's HST sets with 9 car Pendolinos.
I would them do a bit of jiggering about and take displaced class 222 Meridians from the Midland Mainline and create 7, 9 car Bi Mode sets and fit them with tilt bogies as used on the Class 221 (They were designed to be retrofitted).
All this giving East Coast a full tilt capable fleet.
Of course the Bi Mode Meridian could be scraped in favour of a all pendolino fleet if the Government would get its butt in gear and Electrify all East Coast Feeder Routes.
Comments Welcome.
I disagree, as many people have commented before, tilting north of Geordie land would be beneficial.
I'd rather they bring back riding in coal trucks and a bloke walking in front with a red flag than ride another pendo. Every one ive travelled on's been cramped, overcrowded, claustrophobic, rattles, bangs, noisy and it feels like being thrown around the coach over every point or kink in the track. Reserve a seat? pointless, every ones taken by someone who hasn't and won't shift.
Great advert for NOT travelling by high speed train.
The mark 4s are fitted with BT41 bogies, the BT10 is fitted to mark 3 carriages.The BT10 bogey gives a hard ride and the seats just compound the problem.
Do you have a source for the supposed different body profile of the 222s? I have never been able to detect or discern even the slightest difference in the cross-sectional profile, or the shape of the bodyshell in general, of a Meridian compared to a Voyager. Even when the two different types of unit have been standing side by side.@paulclass43: Class 222s were never designed to tilt. They use the same (non-tilting) bogie as the Class 220, and the bodyshell is not tapered for tilting; it is different to that of the 220/221.
The reason that developing a tilt version of the mark 4 was only considered necessary for the WCML and not for the ECML build was because BR calculated that the time saving from utilising tilt on a Kings Cross to Edinburgh journey would only be 5 minutes faster than conventional 225 journey times. It is likely that further improvements in journey time could be gained from using distributed traction ala Pendolino, but I would wager that it is this factor rather than the presence of tilt that would have the greater impact on reducing journey times.I disagree, as many people have commented before, tilting north of Geordie land would be beneficial.
Installing tilt on the mark 4s has reportedly being rendered impossible since the Mallard refurbishment, as the space reserved for the installation of tilt equipment has been used for other purposes.@lewisrday: And that's how things seem to be going. If it was viable, I'd upgrade the IC225 sets by converting about half of each DVT into passenger accomodation and installing tilt equipment on a number of sets; Mk4s were designed with tilting in mind, after all.
Recalcitrant occupants of reserved seats and overcrowding are hardly the fault of the train though, and could occur on any train service anywhere. I travel on Pendolinos, in and out of London at peak times, every day and have never witnessed either of these two problems.I'd rather they bring back riding in coal trucks and a bloke walking in front with a red flag than ride another pendo. Every one ive travelled on's been cramped, overcrowded, claustrophobic, rattles, bangs, noisy and it feels like being thrown around the coach over every point or kink in the track. Reserve a seat? pointless, every ones taken by someone who hasn't and won't shift.
Great advert for NOT travelling by high speed train.
As for the IEP, IT CAN'T BE CANCELLED QUICK ENOUGH.
Class 222 have the same body as the 221's so can be converted. They're much more spacious than the class 220 and 221 as they have more components hidden under the floor.
Tilt would be Beneficial on the full length of the ECML.
They're much more spacious than the class 220 ans 221 as they have more components hidden under the floor.
I'm extremely dubious that there would be any benefit from tilt anywhere on the ECML without massive investment. Take my journey last week:
Left Newcastle on time, Called at Durham, shortly after down to 60 mph and single yellows following a freight train, down to almost a standstill crossing over to stop in Darlington Arrived 8 minutes late. Pulled back some time to York, Again almost at a standstill waiting for a platform at Doncaster back to 7 late on departure. Very slow approaching Peterborough not sure why. running at reduced speed for a long way approaching Hitchin and then bought almost to a stand by a Down Cambridge train. Running on double yellows almost all the way from WGC in to Kings Cross behind a Grand Central 180.
I can remember as a teenager being excited by the high speed runs up the ECML but being a citizen of HS1 the ECML now feels very secondary. Selected infrastructure improvements are needed more than tilt to reduce conflicting movements.
Tilt on the current line will be wasted by longer waits at red signals.
I'd rather they bring back riding in coal trucks and a bloke walking in front with a red flag than ride another pendo. Every one ive travelled on's been cramped, overcrowded, claustrophobic, rattles, bangs, noisy and it feels like being thrown around the coach over every point or kink in the track. Reserve a seat? pointless, every ones taken by someone who hasn't and won't shift.
Great advert for NOT travelling by high speed train.
Hardly any services have arrived on time 10 to 25 mins late would have been average.
I dont really understand why nearly every express service from London to Scotland has to stop at Darlington, to me traffic levels seem very low.
Currently it is all to common for an on time london to Scotland service to be held the best part of 10 minutes there for a conflicting move by a 2 or 3 car DMU.
The junction just South of York seems exactly the same.
The whole route just seems secondary now.