Pendolino Lengthening

[scb201]

I have just noticed this....

Department for Transport (National)

Government takes action to deliver 106 new Pendolinos for West Coast


The Government has taken a substantial step forward in providing 106 new carriages for the West Coast Main Line.

Agreement has been reached with Alstom so that they can begin the production process of new high speed tilting Pendolino trains and carriages which will deliver over 7,420 additional seats on this busy rail route.

This is in addition to the 45% increase in long distance services on the line due in December 2008.

The agreement with Alstom provides for 106 carriages which will create four new eleven-car trains and will also lengthen 31 of the existing trains from 9 to 11-cars. These will be in full service by December 2012. There is also an option to procure a further 42 carriages by early 2013 to meet rising passenger demand.

Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly said:

"Our priority for the railways is increasing capacity and this will provide much needed extra seats on the busiest services from London to Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow.

"In addition, the £8.8bn upgrade of the West Coast Mainline will cut journey times and deliver more frequent services."

The shortlist of bidders for the contract for Service Provider for the Pendolino Lengthening Project is also being announced by the Department for Transport (DfT).

The following bidders have been shortlisted for Pendolino Lengthening Service Provider and will receive an Invitation to Tender shortly:

* Govia Transportation Projects Limited. Govia Limited's parents are the Go-Ahead Group plc and Keolis SA

* Virgin Rail Projects Limited. Owned by a single incorporated entity - Virgin Rail Group Holdings Limited. Virgin Rail Group Holdings Limited is owned 51% by Virgin Holdings Limited and 49% by Stagecoach Rail Holdings Limited (whose ultimate parent is Stagecoach plc).

The Service Provider will support the Department throughout the design finalisation, manufacture, delivery, testing and commissioning of new 'Pendolino' rolling stock through to the end of the current West Coast franchise (31st March 2012). andYYysc

Notes to Editors

1. An option has been secured for the lengthening of the remaining 21 nine car trains from nine to eleven cars. This option can be exercised by 2010 and would provide further additional capacity, should demand from the new services in December stimulate still further demand. This further train lengthening would be completed by early 2013.

2. It is expected that the Invitation to Tender to shortlisted bidders will be issued in Spring 2008.

 

[Callufrax]

What's the link for this source? I couldn't find anything on MEN's website, or news.bbc.co.uk.

EDIT: I take that back. Just found a link:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1048834_seating_plans_on_track_

 

[Mojo]

What's the link for this source? I couldn't find anything on MEN's website, or news.bbc.co.uk.

EDIT: I take that back. Just found a link:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1048834_seating_plans_on_track_

It's off the GNN

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=366614&NewsAreaID=2

 

[me123]

Always good to get more capacity on what will undoubtedly become a much busier route in the next few years. I hope some if not all of the platforms will be lengthened where needed to accommodate 11 cars: it would be a shame for 2 carriages to have no access to a platform at a regular station.

 

[The Planner]

11 cars will need a platform length of 266 metres. There shouldnt be any problems at New St, International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford, Crewe, Piccadilly, Preston, Carlisle, Motherwell or Glasgow.

Lancaster, Stoke, Wolves and Watford are tight and will need some tweaks as will Northampton.

 

[me123]

Hmm, that should be relatively easy to pull off then. I knew Glasgow was OK (you can fit a 156 in front of a Pendo with lots of room to spare) but I had a feeling that there were more problems. Those such as Lancaster with a 2-hourly frequency wouldn't even be urgent work so it looks alrighty really.

 

[David]

At Manchester Piccadilly, the lengthened sets will be able to fit in P5 and P8 with ease, it's just P6, P7 and P9 that will be a bit tight.

 

[me123]

I'd imagne, though. that the lengthened sets would be concentrated more on the Glasgow and Liverpool runs, leaving quite a few 9-car sets on the much more frequent Birmingham and Manchester services.

 

[djw1981]

Interesting too is option B - procurement of a further 23 390's in 8,9, or 11 car formation allowing the Voyagers to be cascaded to XC or EMT. (Holyhead would revert to diesel haulage from Crewe).

AIUI the 9-cars are staying on the Glasgow runs, due to poor loading north of the Manchester-Merseyside area, and the duplication of operators through that area (TPE, VWC Voyager and VWC pendo). Thus allowing 'fast running' from London - North West.

 

[me123]

Well, maybe loadings will soon be good enough to warrent either the lengthening of the 9-cars or the transfer of 11 car sets to Scotland. The additional 390s would be great for Birmingham-Scotland, but I don't really see the point if they need Diesel haulage TBH.

 

[djw1981]

Well ATM we are running diesel under the wires anyway...

Also loadings will be address with 3 new cl390's from 2010 (4 in total including replacement for the Grayrigg set), followed by the lengthening of 31 of the existing fleet (plus the 4 new ones) to 11 cars in 2011-12. If a further 23 were to be procured, that would be an increase in capacity on all voyager routes, plus an additional 3 trains as well as the additional carriages - IIRC this means that the two mid-afternoon Preston turnback services can be extended to Glasgow.

If DfT choose to lengthen all 52 sets, and the 3 new ones, that will be an extra 104+33 coaches on WC. If they purchase another 23 sets (of say 9 cars) to replace the Voyagers, this increase capacity on those routes by 80% and 92 carriages.

The voyagers transfered (in 2012) could be very useful for helping XC double up to increase capacity.

The reason for replacing teh voyagers is that heavy high powered diesel trains running under the wires is just crazy. The cl57 are still around, and are suited to the job, and the Holyhead Pax are used to them. Whether the Wrexham service would adapt to Diesel haulage, or even still be running in 2012 is another story.

 

[Callufrax]

11 cars will need a platform length of 266 metres. There shouldnt be any problems at New St, International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford, Crewe, Piccadilly, Preston, Carlisle, Motherwell or Glasgow.

Lancaster, Stoke, Wolves and Watford are tight and will need some tweaks as will Northampton.

Stockport should be able to handle 10, without a problem. 11 should also fit, if they're not too worried about the ends of the trains hanging off the ends of the platforms.

From memory, there is some room at the southern end of Stockport station for lengthening. The northern end, though, is another matter.

 

[me123]

Well ATM we are running diesel under the wires anyway...

Also loadings will be address with 3 new cl390's from 2010 (4 in total including replacement for the Grayrigg set), followed by the lengthening of 31 of the existing fleet (plus the 4 new ones) to 11 cars in 2011-12. If a further 23 were to be procured, that would be an increase in capacity on all voyager routes, plus an additional 3 trains as well as the additional carriages - IIRC this means that the two mid-afternoon Preston turnback services can be extended to Glasgow.

If DfT choose to lengthen all 52 sets, and the 3 new ones, that will be an extra 104+33 coaches on WC. If they purchase another 23 sets (of say 9 cars) to replace the Voyagers, this increase capacity on those routes by 80% and 92 carriages.

The voyagers transfered (in 2012) could be very useful for helping XC double up to increase capacity.

The reason for replacing teh voyagers is that heavy high powered diesel trains running under the wires is just crazy. The cl57 are still around, and are suited to the job, and the Holyhead Pax are used to them. Whether the Wrexham service would adapt to Diesel haulage, or even still be running in 2012 is another story.

Yeah that would make sense come to think of it. They could easily electrify to Chester and Holyhead in the near future with so many electric services running down the lines, which would reduce the diesel haulage to the currently daily Llandudno and Wrexham services.

Some of the displaced Voyagers could even go to TPE for Manchester runs or EMT for runs Liverpool-Norwich, although there's very little if any room to use full features of the Voyager on the latter service.

And more capacity to BNS wouldn't go amiss: I can see passenger numbers rising there in the future.

I would also imagine that there would be potential for 11 car pendos on the Glasgow-Euston route in the futire. I think the new HF timetable will be really popular and help lure airline passengers away. If they have lots of cheap fares available, the 11 cars could soon be needed: Percentage-wise, 2 carriages per hour is more to us than it is on the Manchester route.

 

[wjp]

I would have thought there are plenty more worthy routes for electrification than Holyhead - also by not doing so you avoid disruption to every single service when the power fails...

...are Virgin increasing their subsidy payments or are we bankrolling this whole thing?

 

[A0wen]

11 cars will need a platform length of 266 metres. There shouldnt be any problems at New St, International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford, Crewe, Piccadilly, Preston, Carlisle, Motherwell or Glasgow.

Lancaster, Stoke, Wolves and Watford are tight and will need some tweaks as will Northampton.

Willing to bet Northampton won't get done though - the general view is that Virgin won't be serving Northampton post Dec 2008.

In terms of Watford Junction, I could also see that being displaced from Virgin WC stops as well. It does seem rather too close to London for a first stop on a long distance service when compared to

GN Mainline - Stevenage or Peterborough
Midland Mainline - Luton or Bedford
GW Mainline - Reading

I suspect Watford's about to lose out to Milton Keynes.

 

[me123]

I would have thought there are plenty more worthy routes for electrification than Holyhead - also by not doing so you avoid disruption to every single service when the power fails...

I'd say it's a better prospect when there's electric trains running along the route with a diesel loco thrown on front comapred to the GWML with no electric stock available ATM.

 

[jagardner1984]

I think Watford is quite important in terms of relieving congestion at Euston. As it serves the M25, large parts of Hertfordshire via London Midland/London Overground services. For the whole of South Hertfordshire, Watford is a good interchange for WCML, just like Bedford for MML, Stevenage for ECML, all those providing good road and rail links to the local area.

 

[A0wen]

I think Watford is quite important in terms of relieving congestion at Euston. As it serves the M25, large parts of Hertfordshire via London Midland/London Overground services. For the whole of South Hertfordshire, Watford is a good interchange for WCML, just like Bedford for MML, Stevenage for ECML, all those providing good road and rail links to the local area.

Problem with Watford is that it's too close to London in terms of timings, getting into Watford by road is pretty slow nowdays, compared with Luton, Stevenage or MK.

I reckon Virgin will lobby to remove all Watford stops, with the justification that changing at Milton Keynes coming south would be better. After all, post Dec 2008 there will be roughly 6 tph between MK and Watford Junc provided by London Midland so the onward links could be considered perfectly adequate.

 

[87015]

After all, post Dec 2008 there will be roughly 6 tph between MK and Watford Junc provided by London Midland so the onward links could be considered perfectly adequate.

SIX?? Where are all these coming from, DfT website only has three (and only one of those is fast)

 

[jagardner1984]

Problem with Watford is that it's too close to London in terms of timings, getting into Watford by road is pretty slow nowdays, compared with Luton, Stevenage or MK.

I reckon Virgin will lobby to remove all Watford stops, with the justification that changing at Milton Keynes coming south would be better. After all, post Dec 2008 there will be roughly 6 tph between MK and Watford Junc provided by London Midland so the onward links could be considered perfectly adequate.

I know what you mean, but as we all know, the attraction of direct services is great, no matter how much Virgin Trains or the others dont want to admit it.

I am sure it would suit Virgin down to the ground to go straight from London to Birmingham non stop, Manchester non stop, Glasgow non stop. If only there wont so many pesky passengers along the way. It would give them their sub four hour timings, ideal for the adverts, less good for the customers anywhere else.

 

[class 313]

Watford has good links to the MML via St Albans Abbey, but a lot of people use VWC at Watford so I don't think VWC will stop operating there!

 

[A0wen]

SIX?? Where are all these coming from, DfT website only has three (and only one of those is fast)

I hadn't checked the DFt website but reckoned on

2 tph to Northampton (both likely to stop at Watford and MKC)

2 tph to MKC terminating

1 tph Trent Valley - Crewe service

There may be scope for one more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Watford has good links to the MML via St Albans Abbey, but a lot of people use VWC at Watford so I don't think VWC will stop operating there!

I doubt you get many people switching to the MML by going to Watford - St Albans Abbey > St Albans City. It's a fiddly walk and pretty time consuming.

In which time you could have got into Euston and used the Victoria line to get to KX or have gone to Bletchley to get to Bedford, or simply got the coach from Watford to Luton.

I don't agree with the posters who say Virgin want to run non stop Birmingham / Manchester - they will know well enough that they pick up alot of custom to some of the intermediate stops e.g. MKC, Coventry, Stafford, Birmingham Intl etc but they don't want to be seen as an alternative to the suburban services, which is why I suspect they'll pull out of Watford and centre on MK as the first stop from London.

 

[Pumbaa]

KGX - Stevenage and Euston - Watford is exactly the same time during peaks; it can get down to 15 mins though during off-peak. It's a useful link for Herts, and relieves congestion fro Euston.

VWC have said they want to cut services from WFJ, MKC, and Northampton, which is sensible but sad. The idea of express trains is that they run as expresses...

 

[motherwell334]

I was in the bothy at motherwell last nite and a pendo came in to platform 3 which isnt long enough so they had to lock the doors to the last 3 coaches until they got to glasgow

 

[djw1981]

Was it on one of the Brum services instead of a Voyager due to the engineering work down south needing the diesels?

 

[D306]

11 cars will need a platform length of 266 metres. There shouldnt be any problems at New St, International, Coventry, Rugby, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford, Crewe, Piccadilly, Preston, Carlisle, Motherwell or Glasgow.

Lancaster, Stoke, Wolves and Watford are tight and will need some tweaks as will Northampton.

This would also have included Lichfield Trent Valley but the work for it has been done. Milton Keynes platform extension is coming on nicely as well for that matter. Rails have been put in where they should be on the new platform road as well.

 

[djw1981]

Is it this Christmas that MK gets a bashing?

 

[D306]

from what?

 

[djw1981]

The track rebuild / platform realignment and such like.

 

[D306]

it's started. Been underway for months now. It should all be finished by the end of the year unless Notwork Fail screw up again