Performing shunts using ground position signals

[zwk500]

Would like to think I have a pretty good understanding of the railway and how it works but there is always room for improvement. On this occasion though I don’t think I’m confused.

on the Open train times maps between Worting junction and Hinton Admiral at St Denys (just country side of the station) there is a GPS in the up direction on the down slow, there is also a LOS board in the down direction on the up fast. Both of these have been used recently to allow passenger trains to shunt for about 12 hours periods in both directions. By the sounds of it this signalling is to mainline standards which allows these to be used.

there is a further example at Virginia Water on the up line allowing passenger trains from Ascot towards London to shunt to gain access towards weybridge to allow the train to continue towards Waterloo.

As a general rule though it appears passenger trains using stand alone shunt signals that are not part of permissive working is not permitted.

The Rulebook states (not sure how up to date this is):

Unless authority is published or you are instructed to do so by the signaller or another person acting on the signaller’s instructions, you must not proceed with a passenger train on the authority of: • a semaphore shunting signal • a position-light signal. However, you may proceed with a passenger train on the authority of a position-light or semaphore subsidiary signal if you are entering a permissive platform line.

Shunt signals do not necessarily prove the route is clear to the next signal + overlap. Therefore, additional actions must be taken by the signaller to ensure the line is clear when a passenger train is to be signalled over it. When the need for working off Shunt signals is known in advance (e.g. Engineering works) the authority can be published direct to the drivers in the WON. If it has not been issued (e.g. the route is being used because of a failure further along the line), the Signaller can instruct the Driver over the GSM-R.

 

[IanXC]

As far as I can tell from RTT, Chathill services terminate then run empty to Crag Mill loops, which are passenger rated, and reverse behind a Main aspect signal.

Due to the SIMBIDS arrangements at Chathill, services can and do terminate and start back from either platform at Chathill when avoiding the run to Crag Mill will mitigate inward delay (and not cause undue delay to mainline services).

 

[zwk500]

Due to the SIMBIDS arrangements at Chathill, services can and do terminate and start back from either platform at Chathill when avoiding the run to Crag Mill will mitigate inward delay (and not cause undue delay to mainline services).

Doesn't surprise me that arrangement is used, although of course RTT won't show it as it hasn't been planned in the timetbale. For the purposes of this thread, of course, it's not using a shunt signal as the SIMBIDS is all main aspect.

 

[Tomnick]

Due to the SIMBIDS arrangements at Chathill, services can and do terminate and start back from either platform at Chathill when avoiding the run to Crag Mill will mitigate inward delay (and not cause undue delay to mainline services).

There's no signal to start back from either platform though - they're in rear of the platforms approaching in the Up direction - so presumably they'd have to shunt beyond the platform to get inside clear behind the signal to come back?

 

[IanXC]

There's no signal to start back from either platform though - they're in rear of the platforms approaching in the Up direction - so presumably they'd have to shunt beyond the platform to get inside clear behind the signal to come back?

I've no idea on the specifics, but I'm 99% certain there is no shunt involved.

 

[louis97]

There's no signal to start back from either platform though - they're in rear of the platforms approaching in the Up direction - so presumably they'd have to shunt beyond the platform to get inside clear behind the signal to come back?

Yes, you'd need to shunt as you describe.