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Permanent closure of Belfast Great Victoria Street station

SirAlf

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Checked out Belfast GC today - very impressed - it reminds me of some of the larger modern Dutch stations. The pedestrian access is a bit cranky, but no doubt this and the urban realm will be sorted out in due course when the rail part opens. The old anti-rail UTA officials and Stormont politicians must be spinning in their graves at all this investment!

I used it on the first day it opened, Express bus from Dublin then onward to George Best airport. Certainly Grand but it didn't seem very Central to me. I’m a fairly regular visitor to Belfast and unless I’m missing something its further away from the city centre than the old Europa bus station and Great Victoria Street
 
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poffle

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First Enterprise test trains have run into Grand Central.


ITVx reporting that the first Enterprise train has done a test run into Belfast Grand Central. There is an aerial video clip from a drone which appears to show a DD Enterprise train set in Grand Central. I can't hear any audio on the clip but there may be a voiceover.


The first test of the Enterprise train service took place at Belfast Grand Central Station on Sunday morning.

An hourly service to Dublin is planned from the new £340m transport hub, with 15 trains departing from Belfast each day.

The station opened to the public for bus services in early September, but train services are yet to commence from the new facility.

The transport hub replaces the Europa Bus Station and the Great Victoria Street Rail Station.
 
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Meerkat

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The long platform seems to be maxed out by the Enterprise - is there no chance of that getting lengthened in future (though a future MU would effectively be two coaches longer i guess)?
 

berneyarms

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The long platform seems to be maxed out by the Enterprise - is there no chance of that getting lengthened in future (though a future MU would effectively be two coaches longer i guess)?
They are 7 coaches long + generator van + locomotive.

They’re never going to need more than 9 coach trains!
 

Bungle965

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The pedestrian access is a bit cranky
You can say that again, Google Maps led me the complete wrong way to a half abandoned car park with someone being arrested in it!

Some locals took pity and pointed me in the right direction, other than that I'm impressed with the building and they have flooded the place with staff to make sure people know where they're going.
 

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Trainbike46

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That old BT building in front of it can't help
Is that what the weird flat building in front is?

I wonder why they decided to build a concrete wall around that

The long platform seems to be maxed out by the Enterprise - is there no chance of that getting lengthened in future (though a future MU would effectively be two coaches longer i guess)?
I mean, capacity will increase a lot when they double the frequency to hourly, so there may be little case for extending it more than the extra space enabled by going to trimode MU
 

Flying Snail

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You can say that again, Google Maps led me the complete wrong way to a half abandoned car park with someone being arrested in it!

Some locals took pity and pointed me in the right direction, other than that I'm impressed with the building and they have flooded the place with staff to make sure people know where they're going.

That's a google issue, that is not the way to the station and never will be. That is the notorious Unionist Sandy Row estate, definitely not somewhere people should be wandering around.
 

Meerkat

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Isn’t that a telephone exchange?

I imagine not the easiest place to relocate!
Isn’t every town scarred by an awful Post Office Telephones building? They really did build some awful stuff that won’t go away.
 
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Reading more about the project, the next phase after the rail section opens, is to remove the Durham Street road bridge which goes over the old platforms at Great Victoria Street. A public square will be created in its place which will link to the Great Northern Mall and significantly improve pedestrian access. It looks like the telephone exchange is staying, for the moment at least, unfortunately. Apparently it wouldn't be impossible to remove it, as during the Troubles other backup exchanges were commissioned across the city for resilience in the event of attack and the network could be reconfigured.
 

Backroom_boy

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It looks like the telephone exchange is staying, for the moment at least, unfortunately. Apparently it wouldn't be impossible to remove it, as during the Troubles other backup exchanges were commissioned across the city for resilience in the event of attack and the network could be reconfigured.
Yes most 'telephone exchanges' are more than half empty these days; even if BT need to retain a point of presence to the network at that location, they could probably do it with a smaller footprint.
 

zwk500

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The long platform seems to be maxed out by the Enterprise - is there no chance of that getting lengthened in future (though a future MU would effectively be two coaches longer i guess)?
224m long for 4-8 from what I've seen. Which does seem short for UK intercity lengths but I guess there were space constraints.
 

zwk500

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How long is the platform they use at Connolly?
From the network statement. 1-4 are Bays, 5-7 through.
1 - 160m
2 - 224m to CY55 signal or 281m full length
3 - 199m
4 - 268m
5 - 190m both directions
6 - 196m southbound, 193m n/b (223m Between top of ramps)
7 - 221m n/b, 171m s/b.

So a 2+7 * 23m set could fit in 2 or 4.
 

berneyarms

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The Enterprise uses platform 2 at Connolly.

With the hourly service I cannot see it ever needing more than 9 coaches (including 2 DVT).
 
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edwin_m

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224m long for 4-8 from what I've seen. Which does seem short for UK intercity lengths but I guess there were space constraints.

From the network statement. 1-4 are Bays, 5-7 through.
1 - 160m
2 - 224m to CY55 signal or 281m full length
3 - 199m
4 - 268m
5 - 190m both directions
6 - 196m southbound, 193m n/b (223m Between top of ramps)
7 - 221m n/b, 171m s/b.

So a 2+7 * 23m set could fit in 2 or 4.

The Enterprise uses platform 2 at Connolly.

With the hourly service I cannot see it ever needing more than 9 coaches (including 2 DVT).
It looks like going beyond CY55 would block platform 3, and I imagine they'd want a choice of two platforms to terminate the Enterprise so they have somewhere to put it if the intended platform is unavailable. On that basis 224m is the maximum viable length for Enterprise. NI domestic services are unlikely ever to be any longer than that so it essentially sets the platform length for Grand Central.
 

Backroom_boy

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It looks like going beyond CY55 would block platform 3, and I imagine they'd want a choice of two platforms to terminate the Enterprise so they have somewhere to put it if the intended platform is unavailable. On that basis 224m is the maximum viable length for Enterprise. NI domestic services are unlikely ever to be any longer than that so it essentially sets the platform length for Grand Central.
I suppose Enterprise could have an Inter-city MU that would use the full length for passenger accommodation?
 

edwin_m

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I suppose Enterprise could have an Inter-city MU that would use the full length for passenger accommodation?
A future fleet almost certainly would, considering that all recent Intercity stock orders for Irish Rail has been MUs and apart from Enterprise I think only Dublin-Cork is still loco-hauled.
 

Meerkat

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Yes most 'telephone exchanges' are more than half empty these days; even if BT need to retain a point of presence to the network at that location, they could probably do it with a smaller footprint.
I’m assuming that ‘rewiring’/redirecting them is monumentally expensive, as I can think of at least one other hideous exchane that is in a prime redevelopment site right next to a station.
 

Backroom_boy

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I’m assuming that ‘rewiring’/redirecting them is monumentally expensive, as I can think of at least one other hideous exchane that is in a prime redevelopment site right next to a station.
It would be similar magnitude to moving a signalling centre I imagine
 

berneyarms

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It looks like going beyond CY55 would block platform 3, and I imagine they'd want a choice of two platforms to terminate the Enterprise so they have somewhere to put it if the intended platform is unavailable. On that basis 224m is the maximum viable length for Enterprise. NI domestic services are unlikely ever to be any longer than that so it essentially sets the platform length for Grand Central.
Drogheda can’t cope with longer trains either.

P2 at Connolly is the designated Enterprise platform and I don’t see that changing.

A future fleet almost certainly would, considering that all recent Intercity stock orders for Irish Rail has been MUs and apart from Enterprise I think only Dublin-Cork is still loco-hauled.
They have gone out to tender for replacing the De Dietrich stock with bi-mode units.
 

Meerkat

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Probably not quite that bad as less safety-critical stuff, but still an obstacle.
But worse because you can’t just shut down the phone system (especially now with the internet!) for a week or two whilst you do it.
 

poffle

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But worse because you can’t just shut down the phone system (especially now with the internet!) for a week or two whilst you do it.
If you rip out telephone exchanges all the businesses lose the ability to process payments. The links between the banks data centres will go in fibre through telephone exchanges. No 999 service. Much of the mobile phone traffic will get aggregated in telephone exchanges so you'll lose mobile coverage. Air traffic control is gone, immigration machines at ports and airports are gone.

I've worked on projects to close telephone exchanges. First step is spend five years or so not putting anything new in. Than you can start thinking about how you get the remaining services out. And in a multi operator world where BT are required to provide space for any other telecoms operator that wants to put equipment in its an awful lot more complicated.
 

Meerkat

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If you rip out telephone exchanges all the businesses lose the ability to process payments. The links between the banks data centres will go in fibre through telephone exchanges. No 999 service. Much of the mobile phone traffic will get aggregated in telephone exchanges so you'll lose mobile coverage. Air traffic control is gone, immigration machines at ports and airports are gone.

I've worked on projects to close telephone exchanges. First step is spend five years or so not putting anything new in. Than you can start thinking about how you get the remaining services out. And in a multi operator world where BT are required to provide space for any other telecoms operator that wants to put equipment in its an awful lot more complicated.
I assumed it must be. Are there also strict restrictions preventing building on top of them? Ie squashing down the stuff without moving the hole in the ground the connections arrive in, then building flats offices above.
It would be nice if someone funded BT to reclad them from the awful ridged concrete and ancient windows they generally seem to have!
 

bangor-toad

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Just announced - Belfast Grand Central will open for the railway service on Sunday 13th October.

BBC News:
Translink say they expect trains to start running at Belfast’s new Grand Central Station in 10 days’ time.

Sunday 13 October has been pencilled in as the date for the start of train services at the £340m station.
BBC News article

At last!
It's understandable that the closure had to happen to allow for the upgrade but the extra time taken to walk across Belfast was being to drag...
I look forward to using this.

Cheers
Mr Toad
 
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Translink confirm that Belfast GC is definitely 'go' for trains on Sunday, with the first services confirmed.

Belfast GC

The first train to depart from the station on Sunday October 13, will be an Enterprise service to Dublin at 8:05am, while the first arrival will be the 8:30am service from Portadown, expected at 9:15am.

N.B. link is to a 'Reach' site for those triggered by them!
 

stadler

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Belfast Grand Central is finally open. The videos i have seen online look fairly quiet for a new station opening with only a handful of people and some media. The recent new stations opened on the mainland seemed far busier full of enthusiasts for the first trains. The station certainly looks better and more spacious than the Belfast Great Victoria Street station so it should definitely be an improvement.

Looking at photos i see automatic ticket barriers have been installed. I think these are the first ever automatic ticket barriers on their network. But i have no idea how the tickets will open up the barriers. Tickets purchased from both Ticket Offices and from Guards onboard trains are just paper shop receipt type tickets. There is no barcode or anything on them. So i am not sure how these will open barriers. Does anyone know how these work? Have they recently changed the tickets or begun printing barcodes on them?

Also one oddity i notice is that the new screens at Belfast Grand Central are very oddly displaying Dundalk as "Dundalk Rail Halt". Why not just simply "Dundalk". I have never heard the station described as this before. Also it is a very large major station serving a large town so definitely not what i would call a "Halt".

From looking at photos the provision of departure boards seems quite poor. Just a couple small screens sited very high up and with small text. For a major large station like this i would have expected something a bit better like a long row of screens displaying the departures! It seems quite poor compared to what our major stations on the mainland have!
 

berneyarms

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Belfast Grand Central is finally open. The videos i have seen online look fairly quiet for a new station opening with only a handful of people and some media. The recent new stations opened on the mainland seemed far busier full of enthusiasts for the first trains. The station certainly looks better and more spacious than the Belfast Great Victoria Street station so it should definitely be an improvement.

Looking at photos i see automatic ticket barriers have been installed. I think these are the first ever automatic ticket barriers on their network. But i have no idea how the tickets will open up the barriers. Tickets purchased from both Ticket Offices and from Guards onboard trains are just paper shop receipt type tickets. There is no barcode or anything on them. So i am not sure how these will open barriers. Does anyone know how these work? Have they recently changed the tickets or begun printing barcodes on them?

Also one oddity i notice is that the new screens at Belfast Grand Central are very oddly displaying Dundalk as "Dundalk Rail Halt". Why not just simply "Dundalk". I have never heard the station described as this before. Also it is a very large major station serving a large town so definitely not what i would call a "Halt".

From looking at photos the provision of departure boards seems quite poor. Just a couple small screens sited very high up and with small text. For a major large station like this i would have expected something a bit better like a long row of screens displaying the departures! It seems quite poor compared to what our major stations on the mainland have!
Since when is Great Britain the “mainland” when discussing the island of Ireland?

Whatever about the politics, Ireland is an island in its own right!
 

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