Permit to Travel Machines

[centraltrains]

Hi,

Recently after discovering that the PERTIS machine at my local station was actually ever in use I have become very interested in the PERTIS machines. I have been going around the Midlands in the past few months collecting PERTIS tickets. I have found it quite annoying not knowing where they are. London Midland said they didn't have a list of stations. Chiltern did though.
(My results are available here: http://www.bibfun.com/PPTData/DataBases/17thOct.pdf)

I am quite keen to go to other stations to find them (out of the midlands) but that's quite a journey so I was wondering if anyone knew of any sources with lists of places with PERTIS machines?

I also read on this forum that Chorley had a PERTIS machine. Looking at the national rail enquires website I saw this: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/SME/html/NRE_CRL/images/photos/800/o1571-0000014.jpg It looks the same style as a PERTIS; dose anyone know what this is? Do these still exist?

 

[AngusH]

An excellent bit of research.

Reliability of the machines doesn't look too good though with 7 out of 31 having some issue by my count.

Did it seem more vandalism or just machine failure do you think?



As to bits of extra information:

There is this list that dates from 2004 I think:

http://www.stannsulyn.dsl.pipex.com/machines/pertis.pdf

(quite likely to be throughly obsolete though!)

The type in question in the photo is possibly the Almex AS-88, description here:
http://www.stannsulyn.dsl.pipex.com/machines/almex_as88_89.pdf

since it looks like that machine is a carpark ticket type.

But it might possibly be the AS-10:
http://www.stannsulyn.dsl.pipex.com/machines/almex_as10.pdf


AS-88 reported as all removed in the linked article.
Some AS-88 units have been removed, but others may remain


(Hopefully someone else may have some personal knowledge these units)

 

[cool110]

It's not the one from Chorley, but I have seen one of those machines on display at the NRM.

 

[centraltrains]

Wow! I knew about the http://www.stannsulyn.dsl.pipex.com/machines/pertis.pdf page but didn't realse there was the same for other type of machine!

Looking from national rail and Google these stations seem to have them:

Wrabness (Last Seen: 2010)
Swanscombe (Last Seen: 2012)
Walton on Naze (No other sources than NRE and List)
Mistley is on list but looks to be a PTT.
Kirby Cross (Last Seen: 2009/2012 (2012 is unclear))
Hythe (Last Seen: 2009)
Chorley (Source suggest it has been removed as station has been upgraded recently)

The common factor in all bar 2 stations is that they are managed by Abellio Greater Anglia.

 

[nicobobinus]

Swale has a PERTIS machine and was functioning when I visited back in August.

I believe West Drayton's is still there and activated when the ticket office is closed.. a few others on the lines out of Paddington too, unless they have been removed very recently indeed. There are still a few about in the London/SE area if you know where to look.

 

[coxy]

Swale has a PERTIS machine and was functioning when I visited back in August.

I believe West Drayton's is still there and activated when the ticket office is closed.. a few others on the lines out of Paddington too, unless they have been removed very recently indeed. There are still a few about in the London/SE area if you know where to look.

The machine at Taplow is still there and working.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Maidstone Barracks has one - not sure if it works though

Here's a pic I took on a recent visit

 

[steamybrian]

Earlier in the year I used one at Chilham.

 

[Crossover]

As a tip, many seem unkeen to accept 5p's - had more success with 10p though
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I got one from Hanwell earlier this year, as well as Sandwell and Dudley. I thought I had others but can't find them if so

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have SWT removed many of theirs? The local SWT station to be used to have one by wasn't there last time i got a train from there

 

[swt_passenger]

Have SWT removed many of theirs? The local SWT station to be used to have one by wasn't there last time i got a train from there

There are no SWT stations with both TVM and Pertis, the Pertis machines were systematically removed as the S&B machines were rolled out.

There are minor stations with Pertis, (Hillbrook, Redbridge, Beaulieu Rd near here for examples) but they are not the old red BR type, but a newer model more like a car parking machine.

 

[Clip]

Have both west and south(used to be on platform didnt it or in the tunnel) Ruislip and the two sudburys still got their on chiltern?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

An interesting project - I'm struggling to read the spreadsheet though - For Shenstone it says both "None" and "Seen" with some notes.

I understand this machine was stolen (with the cash inside) and LM decided not to replace it.

 

[tsr]

Have both west and south(used to be on platform didnt it or in the tunnel) Ruislip and the two sudburys still got their on chiltern?

I believe the Sudburys both still have theirs, as does Lapworth. Not sure about the Ruislips.

 

[TheEdge]

I've always assumed this is one at Manningtree (still very much there)

Shamelessly hotlinked from NRE

 

[TEW]

I believe the Sudburys both still have theirs, as does Lapworth. Not sure about the Ruislips.

South Ruislip did last time I was there, in the subway, beyond the ticket barrier. It still contained a long obsolete reference to the machine being operated by BR and not LUL.

 

[centraltrains]

An interesting project - I'm struggling to read the spreadsheet though - For Shenstone it says both "None" and "Seen" with some notes.

I understand this machine was stolen (with the cash inside) and LM decided not to replace it.

Whoops! Sometimes I forget to update those boxes. As there is a date in obtained it is there and working.

I'll fix it for the next upload.

 

[Crossover]

There was one at a station me and Starmill visited in SouthEastern land - I'll see if I can dig out which station it was

 

[DJ737]

On Southeastern there is one at Hollingbourne in Kent

 

[centraltrains]

South Ruislip did last time I was there, in the subway, beyond the ticket barrier. It still contained a long obsolete reference to the machine being operated by BR and not LUL.

Chiltern sent me a list of their's a few months ago:
I've seen them at:
Lapworth
Hatton

Not sure if I should post the list as there is a confidential footer on the email! >.<
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I went to a few EMT station last night. One station looked as if there had been one there but removed. The other worked though. Very interesting ticket design; looks as if someone took the original and copied it. The barcode seems to suggest they scan them to say there used on some sort of database. Does anyone know if that is true?

I don't seem to be able to insert a picture, Maybe it's because I am a new member?

http://postimg.org/image/lvqhz9b8d/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone know how PERTIS machines are activated when the pay in office light is on?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Does anyone know how PERTIS machines are activated when the pay in office light is on?

The one at City Thameslink (no longer there) had a switch inside the ticket office, first clerk in the morning opens office and flicks the switch, turning the Pertis into 'pay at office' mode, last clerk at night closes the office and flicks the switch back, putting it back into use for the night.

 

[centraltrains]

Hi,

Another query about them (sorry to keep bumping this thread but I think it may be worse to make an entirely new one). I have gone to some more stations today and most of them didn't have ticket offices. Is the light for ticket office open just not wired up when this happens?
Also I notice their are two lock type things on the side. One which seems to be a standered square key and the other a bit more complex. Does anyone know what these do?
If a machine runs out of tickets does it automatically go out of use or does someone have to come and set it?

And one last question. I will put in money for a ticket and not use the ticket. Obviously money goes into the box. Who profits out of this? Is it just the TOC or is it split across the rail companies as if it we're a normal ticket?

 

[class303]

Was one outside of Walthamstow St James St under the bridge until the recent LO takeover.

 

[centraltrains]

Was one outside of Walthamstow St James St under the bridge until the recent LO takeover.

I was interested in that one, Google maps had it pictured in 2015, Do you know it has been taken out now then?

 

[Clip]

Hi,

Another query about them (sorry to keep bumping this thread but I think it may be worse to make an entirely new one). I have gone to some more stations today and most of them didn't have ticket offices. Is the light for ticket office open just not wired up when this happens?
Also I notice their are two lock type things on the side. One which seems to be a standered square key and the other a bit more complex. Does anyone know what these do?
If a machine runs out of tickets does it automatically go out of use or does someone have to come and set it?

And one last question. I will put in money for a ticket and not use the ticket. Obviously money goes into the box. Who profits out of this? Is it just the TOC or is it split across the rail companies as if it we're a normal ticket?

The lights are indeed controlled by the ticket office - so they get turned off when they are open and on when they are closed.

Im not telling you about the key/lock situation and yes they should go out of use if no tickets(or in some cases with tickets still in them).

Its just the TOC itself as the numbers are so small.

 

[aelius]

I recently emailed London Midland about Wythall and Whitlocks End. I wasn't able to buy the ticket I wanted from the ticket machine at Wythall (Daytripper). The penalty notices suggested I needed to buy a permit to travel. The ticket machine didn't sell them and when I found a separate Permit to Travel Machine, it was out of order. Anyway, while I was doing all of this, the train came and went, so instead of waiting an hour, I walked to Whitlocks End.
At Whitlocks End I was able to buy a Daytripper from the ticket machine but I noticed/or couldn't find a Permit to Travel machine, despite the same penalty notices.
I contacted London Midland who said among other things "Incidentally, Permit to Travel machines are only available at those stations which do not have a ticket office or a ticket machine." I suppose this is why the machine at Wythall was out of order; it's not needed because there is a ticket machine and it's not been removed yet. It looked pretty old and on its last legs.

 

[centraltrains]

I contacted London Midland who said among other things "Incidentally, Permit to Travel machines are only available at those stations which do not have a ticket office or a ticket machine." I suppose this is why the machine at Wythall was out of order; it's not needed because there is a ticket machine and it's not been removed yet. It looked pretty old and on its last legs.

I think allot of them with London Midland are set to stay for quite awhile. It seems LM only take away the machine if they have installed a TVM which accepts both cash and card. Whythall's Machine only accepts card but Whitlock's End accepts both cash and card. If you go down the rest of the line the same is true. When I spoke to London Midland on Twitter they said that the machine at Wythall has a fault and there are no spear parts available for them to fix it. Wythall is one of a tiny number of WM stations I haven't managed to collect a PTT ticket from yet! The ones not in service on my last checks were: Smethick Rolfe Street (They have been having vandalism problems, and actually took out a card TVM because of this), Witton 01 (02, Walsall bound platform works), Blake Street and Whythall.

The main problem being new coins not working; Though the ones EMT and SWT have do seem to accept new coins.

Do you think it's possible to upgrade the PERTIS machines to accept new coins?

The lights are indeed controlled by the ticket office - so they get turned off when they are open and on when they are closed.

Im not telling you about the key/lock situation and yes they should go out of use if no tickets(or in some cases with tickets still in them).

TBH I think it is pretty obvious that one of them opens the cover of the machine. I would guess that the other one either controls the not in service light or disables some sort of security alarm.

The square lock doesn't look very secure so maybe it controls the light but it also looks quite heavy duty to keep the door shut. Of course the money goes into the money holder in the stand which has a totally separate stand. I'm not planning to rob one. I am just very genuinely interested in these machines. - If only I got a job one day of maintaining the PTT Machines

I was asking if there is no ticket office at all but if there is a PERTIS machine. For example I went to Little Kimble and this had a PTT Machine but no ticker office so would the switch to control the light just not be plugged into the system in this case?

 

[Clip]

At a place like little kimble then it is on all the time as no one there to turn it on or off at stations with ticket offices this is controlled from inside the ticket office.

People try and rob them quite often and they are then a pain to get fixed.

 

[centraltrains]

Why would anyone rob a PTT machine anyway? They would hardly have anything in them (well dependent on how often the TOC empties them)!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Went to London Today and saw some PTTs. If any is interested my findings are below.

Sudbury & Harrow Road - Yes, However the ticket office open light was illuminated. But the station doesn't have a ticket office?

Sudbury Hill Harrow - Yes, Machines was electrically dead and there was a not in service sign stuck over the coin slot.

South Ruislip - Yes, But out of order.

West Ruislip - No.

St. James Street - No.

West Ealing - Yes. Ticket obtained.

Was a nightmare getting to the Sudburys with the Picadilly closed >.<

 

[TEW]

You should have a lot of luck with the GWR stations Paddington-Reading. I found machines in working order at Taplow and Iver when I went to both a couple of weeks ago.