Permitted routes for Crewe to Macclesfield

[yashicamat]

Hello,

Apologies for having to ask this; I've tried and tried to get my head around the Routeing Guidelines but Macclesfield doesn't always appear where I need it to (and I can't fathom out if it forms part of a 'station group') . . . it is getting very complex! Then there's easements etc. which make things even more complicated.

My understanding at the moment is the obvious routes are;

Crewe - Stockport - Macclesfield
Crewe - Cheadle Hulme - Macclesfield
Crewe - Kidsgrove - Macclesfield
Crewe - Stoke-on-Trent - Macclesfield

My query is if Crewe - Stafford - Macclesfield is a permitted route? It appears as an option when entering into national rail enquiries (usually for the late evening), but with a higher price attached to the ticket. If it is a permitted route, surely it should be valid on the standard 'Crewe - Macclesfield anytime' ticket?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rob

 

[SS4]

Macclesfield and Crewe share a routeing point so the permitted route is the shortest route by distance (+3 miles) or a direct train
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
According to Railmiles going via Stafford is 63mi 43ch

The shortest route is:

Distance: 22mi 04ch - show the route on a map
Route: Crewe, Crewe South Junction, Crewe North Stafford Junction, Barthomley Junction, Alsager, Kidsgrove, Congleton, Macclesfield

 

[yashicamat]

Macclesfield and Crewe share a routeing point so the permitted route is the shortest route by distance (+3 miles) or a direct train

Thanks for the reply. I don't quite understand your remark about distance; Stoke is a permitted change as is Kidsgrove, but Stoke is significantly further as a station change; likewise, Cheadle Hulme is closer than Stockport. But the two major changes often represent a quicker overall journey. Or is this something to do with the easement surrounding Kidsgrove?

Thanks

Rob

 

[SS4]

There is an easement that permits travelling via Stoke.

30106 Journeys from Macclesfield, Congleton, Kidsgrove and Longport via Stafford may travel via Stoke on Trent. This easement applies in both directions.

My interpretation regarding Stafford in that easement is that it's talking about journeys from Longport via Stafford rather than via the other stations

I can't get NRE to offer me a single ticket for Crewe to Macclesfield via Stafford

 

[yashicamat]

There is an easement that permits travelling via Stoke.



My interpretation regarding Stafford in that easement is that it's talking about journeys from Longport via Stafford rather than via the other stations

I can't get NRE to offer me a single ticket for Crewe to Macclesfield via Stafford

Thanks. The ticket I've seen (this is commuting, so for me on weekdays) is the 19:55 from Crewe (on Monday).

Is it a reasonable assumption if National Rail Enquiries gives the journey between two stations (and the passenger holds an anytime/any route ticket between those stations), it should be a permitted route?

 

[SS4]

Thanks. The ticket I've seen (this is commuting, so for me on weekdays) is the 19:55 from Crewe (on Monday).

Is it a reasonable assumption if National Rail Enquiries gives the journey between two stations (and the passenger holds an anytime/any route ticket between those stations), it should be a permitted route?

It would be but NRE says you need to buy two tickets to make that particular journey which is why it costs more than the other tickets. That you need two tickets makes it not permitted.

NRE does not sell ticket itself, if you look at the London Midland site it does not show the 1955

 

[yashicamat]

It would be but NRE says you need to buy two tickets to make that particular journey which is why it costs more than the other tickets. That you need two tickets makes it not permitted.

NRE does not sell ticket itself, if you look at the London Midland site it does not show the 1955

Got it

Thanks for the help, much appreciated!

Rob

 

[Paul Kelly]

There is an easement that permits travelling via Stoke.

Journeys from Macclesfield, Congleton, Kidsgrove and Longport via Stafford may travel via Stoke on Trent. This easement applies in both directions.

My interpretation regarding Stafford in that easement is that it's talking about journeys from Longport via Stafford rather than via the other stations

I can't get NRE to offer me a single ticket for Crewe to Macclesfield via Stafford

I don't agree that NRE is interpreting the easement like this; the electronic version of the routeing guide makes it clear that "via Stafford" applies to all four origin stations. In any case similar easement 30105 seems to be what's allowing the journey via Stockport:

Journey from Macclesfield, Prestbury, Adlington, Poynton and Bramhall via Wilmslow may travel via Stockport. This easement applies in both directions.

This is probably combined with

Customers may double back when travelling between Cheadle Hulme and Stockport.

There doesn't appear to be an easement similar to 700074 that would allow doubling back through Norton Bridge, which might be why the route via Stafford isn't permitted.

I'm otherwise baffled as to why NRE allows Crewe to Macclesfield via Stoke-on-Trent. It doesn't appear to be a permitted route.

 

[martinsh]

I'm otherwise baffled as to why NRE allows Crewe to Macclesfield via Stoke-on-Trent. It doesn't appear to be a permitted route.

I wonder if it's something to do with the fact that until recently the Manchester - Stoke local service only went as far as Macclesfield outside peak hours, so Crewe - Kidsgrove - Macclesfield wasn't a feasible option for most of the day.

 

[Paul Kelly]

That's a reasonable explanation, but I meant more in a "mechanical" sense, having worked through the routeing guide and easements and timetable I can't see what's in there that's making IPTIS (the journey planning engine behind NRE) allow it.

 

[SickyNicky]

Just to clarify, Norton Bridge is a member of the Stafford group routeing point, so doubling back between it and Stafford is permitted for interchange purposes.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Good spot; well I'm even more confused then. Clearly not a routeing guide expert yet...

 

[SickyNicky]

Good spot; well I'm even more confused then. Clearly not a routeing guide expert yet...

Can anyone say they are?

 

[martinsh]

Just to clarify, Norton Bridge is a member of the Stafford group routeing point, so doubling back between it and Stafford is permitted for interchange purposes.

You would have to double back since Norton Bridge has no trains that stop there !!

 

[NRE_Kathryn]

That's a reasonable explanation, but I meant more in a "mechanical" sense, having worked through the routeing guide and easements and timetable I can't see what's in there that's making IPTIS (the journey planning engine behind NRE) allow it.

Hiya, came across this thread whilst doing some reporting this morning. Did you get to the bottom of the issue, or would you like me to investigate?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Hello NRE Lisa, I don't think this one is a major issue - see the "Peterborough to Whitehaven" thread for something more detrimental to passengers for example!