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Persistent railway myths, misunderstandings etc.

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Spartacus

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The big one “Only in Britain, typical British railways” etc, like trains are never late abroad.
 
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Spartacus

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As someone that is soon to become a timetable planner, this scares me.

One thing to remember is that the train planning rules are rarely complete, for instance the rarely take into account that a typical freight train might be a quarter of a mile long and you’re only timing the front, don’t forget about the back.
 

Journeyman

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The big one “Only in Britain, typical British railways” etc, like trains are never late abroad.

Oh, that's a huge one. People have one or two nice journeys on a TGV or ICE when they're on holiday, and that's it - all foreign railways are brilliant. SNCF and DB have some very serious problems. Complaining about the railways is a national sport in Germany!
 

Hellfire

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It is possible. There's a tram system in France somewhere that uses contact studs in the roadway that only go live when a tram goes over them.
Trams in both Leeds and London tried the contact stud system in the 1890s. There were all sorts of problems. The trams had powerful electromagnets underneath which operated switches that turned on the studs at the right time, then when the tram passed the switch would turn off. Sometimes that didn't happen and there were cases of horses getting electrocuted because the studs were still live.
 

Ianno87

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One thing to remember is that the train planning rules are rarely complete, for instance the rarely take into account that a typical freight train might be a quarter of a mile long and you’re only timing the front, don’t forget about the back.

It varies across the country. Sometimes the rules aren't perfect themselves as making the rules perfect would mean taking trains out of the timetable as a consequence. Which makes some other people complain that you haven't tried hard enough!
 

Neil Urquhart

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Subscribing to Spotters Monthly and posting to lots of internet newsgroups means that your ideas about how to run the rail network are obviously brilliant and way better than anything that any industry professional has come up with.
 

Ianno87

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Subscribing to Spotters Monthly and posting to lots of internet newsgroups means that your ideas about how to run the rail network are obviously brilliant and way better than anything that any industry professional has come up with.

See also: How decisions made by the railway industry are "stupid" or "a mistake" in spite of being made by professionals with years of experience and analysis/evidence at their direct disposal, and without the benefit of hindsight from the future or necessarily the ability to have full knowledge.
 

JN114

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I thought it was...?

It isn’t. Rulebook goes to great lengths to describe the various characteristics and restrictions for the various classes of train; but makes no mention of any priority system. See also various instances of Class 1 trains timetabled to wait for Class 2 stopping service to go ahead - Kings Norton on approach to New Street for example.
 

tiptoptaff

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That all tightly worked diagrams produced by train planning that work on paper also work 100% of the time in practice
 

E_Reeves

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It isn’t. Rulebook goes to great lengths to describe the various characteristics and restrictions for the various classes of train; but makes no mention of any priority system. See also various instances of Class 1 trains timetabled to wait for Class 2 stopping service to go ahead - Kings Norton on approach to New Street for example.
A 1xxx headcode will have priority over a 4xxx headcode though, so even if it is not mentioned, it is still in a way indicative of some sort of priority system surely?
 

Ianno87

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A 1xxx headcode will have priority over a 4xxx headcode though, so even if it is not mentioned, it is still in a way indicative of some sort of priority surely?

Not necessarily. Freight can often get regulation priority in many circumstances.
 

FGW_DID

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That all tightly worked diagrams produced by train planning that work on paper also work 100% of the time in practice

Too true! Especially when they program in a visit to the depot for fuel. The unit arrives in one formation, has to get cleaned & fuelled, treated with the fitters ‘magic spanner’ then has to leave in the middle of a different formation, all in the time that would make a F1 pit team wince!
 

LAX54

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Leaves on the line is a made up excuse.

Rail staff actively go out of their way at every opportunity to irritate passengers.

There are extra coaches lying about everywhere that we refuse to use in service.

Odd that in Europe they have exactly the same problem, but that seems to be ignored by Passengers and the Media !
 

LAX54

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It isn’t. Rulebook goes to great lengths to describe the various characteristics and restrictions for the various classes of train; but makes no mention of any priority system. See also various instances of Class 1 trains timetabled to wait for Class 2 stopping service to go ahead - Kings Norton on approach to New Street for example.

But a Class 1 is in theory to take priority over a class 2 or class 4, however the TOC's seem to have their own rules that bear little resemblence to generally accepted rules ! If a Class 1 is about 5 or 7 late approaching Ipswich, and there is a RT freight ready to depart the yard, it will be held for the late IC service.
 

The Planner

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One thing to remember is that the train planning rules are rarely complete, for instance the rarely take into account that a typical freight train might be a quarter of a mile long and you’re only timing the front, don’t forget about the back.
They never will be complete either.
 

vlad

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I was in Stow-o-o-oake the other day. One of the many British cities so denuded of economic life that you could remake 'The Omega Man' in its centre at 9 am on a weekday

They filmed The Girl With All The Gifts (a post-apocalyptic zombie film) in the centre a couple of years ago. I don't think anyone noticed.
 

agbrs_Jack

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All trains have to stop at Stockport, based on an ancient law, strangely no one has been able to find this law and the 05.11 Cross Country service from Manchester Piccadilly to Bournemouth certainly isnt aware of this :)
Here are some more :)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y25196/2018/11/09/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y25324/2018/11/09/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y52919/2019/01/05/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y52924/2019/01/05/advanced
 

Billy A

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I assume the third rail was recessed into the roadway. Hell of a tripping hazrd otherwise

It's more of a continuous pad than a rail so yes you can wander about without falling flat on your face.
 

JN114

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A 1xxx headcode will have priority over a 4xxx headcode though, so even if it is not mentioned, it is still in a way indicative of some sort of priority system surely?

A 1xnn headcode may well be timetabled ahead of a 4xnn headcode; but that’s just the way the timetable is written. It’s not a priority system.
 

JN114

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But a Class 1 is in theory to take priority over a class 2 or class 4, however the TOC's seem to have their own rules that bear little resemblence to generally accepted rules ! If a Class 1 is about 5 or 7 late approaching Ipswich, and there is a RT freight ready to depart the yard, it will be held for the late IC service.

Because of relative train characteristics, not because the headcode system said Class 1 must go before Class 6/7
 

InOban

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There's no way that a class 1 train from the West Highland line would be given priority over a class2 north Clyde electric. Their timetable is so fragile that to hold one up for a WHL train could disrupt everything for hours.
 

tbtc

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Talking of myths, is the "180s were originally ordered for the FNW services from Rochdale/ Manchester Airport to Euston" story true? Fourteen trains always seemed a bit too much for the service (especially with the Manchester Airport - Euston line obviously being electrified).

(they might have intended some for local routes in the North West but that was surely what the 100mph 175s were planned for, so why so many 125mph diesel trains?)

Merkell is suvstantially to the left of her British conservative counterparts, and probably not that far to the right of even the current Labour leadership in substance (when you strip away the rhetoric). What I suspect you really want, if you're anything like me is a competent, pragmatic moderate, rather than the pocket-scale reproductions of Pinochet who seem to have been running Britain recently.

Mr Millibean, btw, would I think have made a better prime minister than he did an opposition leader, a sort of New Labour version of John Major, but it says a lot about this country, none of it good, that a. inability to eat a bacon sarnie elegantly is considered a more heinous offence than leavig a pub without all your children b. that this sort of media-driven twaddle is considered more important than someone's policies, and ability to implement them competently.

I'd broadly agree (but better not take this thread off-topic)

Oddly enough, although overall usage figures for the Borders Railway are more or less accurate, the station usage predictions were a bit back-to-front. The inner-end stations in Midlothian have been much quieter than expected, with the outer ones (especially Galashiels) much busier.

Yeah, I'm really not buying the case for extension to Carlisle. Melrose and Hawick might be viable, but beyond that you're dealing with more or less completely empty countryside, and there's nothing that will generate traffic. It might occasionally be useful as a diversionary route, but for that you'd need double track and electrification throughout, and a ballpark figure for upgrading and extending it is at least a billion quid. It's still a gruesomely difficult line to work as well, with gradients and curves that strain even modern rolling stock, and the journey times will never be all that quick.

It's yet another line people get romantic and nostalgic about, and treat the closure as a great injustice, but the truth is the demand for it to return as a mixed-traffic mainline just isn't there. As an outer-suburban commuter route, it will do quite well, but that's it.

The reasons for the stations that have over/under performed are interesting (partly due to the credible Lothian Buses services to Midlothian and the slightly rubbish First services from Edinburgh to the Borders? Okay, First have sold up in the Borders after the railway opened but didn't put up much resistance - whereas Lothian rejigged services to co-ordinate better and seem to have kept more of the market than they were expected to hold).

But (despite the heady early days) the total numbers of passengers seems pretty unremarkable. I'm not knocking it - it could have been worse but... meh... i wouldn't be eager to boast of the amazing passenger numbers as some kind of benchmark to justify any old scheme ("yes, my plan for a Dibley to Ambridge line has a BCR of 0.01 but the Borders line beat expectations therefore I can ignore the evidence").

A 1xnn headcode may well be timetabled ahead of a 4xnn headcode; but that’s just the way the timetable is written. It’s not a priority system.

True - worth pointing out that some of the London - Birmingham - Glasgow services are 9XXX (despite being 125mph trains) - my understanding is that this is to distinguish them from the other Virgin services (rather than to give every other service between Euston and Central priority over them)
 
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