Personal Political Beliefs : Has the pandemic made you move further left or right?

[Journeyman]

I see why you have the handle “LOL the Irony” now.

Who wants Donald Trump’s muse and mouthpiece of the metropolitan elite? The elite from metropolitan Moscow, that is.

Farage bet ten grand on Trump winning the election. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

Show me an alternative that isn't a giant joke right now.

Farage is, and always has been, a joke.

 

[birchesgreen]

The pandemic has made me quite apolitical.

 

[takno]

Show me an alternative that isn't a giant joke right now.

I can probably get my 8 year old nephew to grab a megaphone and start loudly condemning lockdown. Much like Farage, he'd be right on that topic but he'd be an absolute catastrophe as Prime Minister.

 

[yorkie]

I've just been reading the interesting thread about the left/right responses to Covid, and I was thinking about how this past year has changed my values and beliefs. Previously, I would have considered myself centre-right, and I voted Conservative in the last election. In some ways I've moved further to the right - especially when the left are calling for endless lockdowns/mandatory facemasks/vaccinations...

Anyone who calls for endless lockdowns / mandatory facemasks goes down in my underestimation.

I do not think it is a left vs right thing; it's more authoritarian vs libertarian. Too much of either is a bad thing but I am more libertarian than authoritarian, at least when it comes to our freedoms!

While the correlation may appear to be left vs right, it really isn't.

I am pro-vaccine but absolutely against mandatory vaccinations; indeed Hancock's hints that vaccines might be mandatory was extremely irresponsible and galvanized the anti-vax lobbyists.

It should be up to each individual if they wear a mask or not; mask mandates are creating an epidemic of disability discrimination that we have absolutely no willingness to find a cure for. Any studies wheeled out in support of mask wearing are based on theoretical situations and surgical quality masks that are replenished frequently, not the real world of mask mandates.

I believe in giving individuals the right to choose where possible. If I want to play football with a group of people, I should be able to. The risks are virtually nil yet the benefits are great.

Authoritarians who want these punitive measures have lost my respect. If some people no longer want to talk tome be because of my concerns about mental health, livelihoods, discrimination and much more, then that's their choice.

I wouldn't say my political position has changed much, but I certainly feel more isolated from the current crop of parties! If anything, my libertarian leanings have been strengthened but I continue to be about the same place on the left-right scale

Same here and my guess is that you are left-leaning like me.

Labour could be a bloodbath when it comes to restrictions...

Absolutely; they have alienated me, and at a time when - after the disaster that was Corbyn - I was thinking it may be a party I may actually vote for! No chance now as they have spoken in favour of even tougher restrictions, which would be a disaster for mental health (and other things!)

I actually find that pretty chilling. Giving him the benefit of the doubt I suppose it is some kind of attempt to find a solution to the mess, but I’m not convinced it’s the right one.

Problem is it's other countries that will demand this; if we don't implement a vaccination "passport" or other suitable evidence of vaccination, our citizens are going to be disadvantaged.

....other than the Greens ( which sadly is effectively not voting ).....

If the Greens were run by the sort of Greens who are pro-rail (e.g. Greens4HS2) I'd vote for them without question. But too many people in the Green party wish to destroy our way of life and oppose rail schemes, and therefore they are currently not an option for me.

This diagram seems to sum it up nicely

View attachment 89002

Very true! (Just don't forget to edit your post to include a text alternative so anyone who is unable to see the image, such as visually impaired people, can read the excellent point you are making! )

The political spectrum is very muddied now.

Because I question lockdowns and mask mandates, many would say I'm quite right wing (because that seems to be the label that is given to them, which I disagree with but that's how it is).

Those people are wrong. It makes you libertarian not right wing.

It also makes you more caring about people with disabilities, anxieties, medical conditions etc. These are not what I would consider "right wing" traits (though the terms left vs right are hotly contested terms as they could refer to a range of issues such as financial, social and more; a policy that results in discrimination & abuse directed disabled people, such as a mask mandate, is not what I'd deem a "left" wing policy!).

I have always said I'm a centre-right libertarian, and I maintain I am still that. But I have absolutely no idea where I sit with all the political parties now. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably go down there and spoil my ballot.

The Conservative party has the potential to be the right party for you if the right people were running it.

It's made me realise the evils of authoritarian governments, and I'm therefore considerably more libertarian/anarchist than I was before.....

I detest anarchism; it's downright dangerous. But I get what you mean about the evils of authoritarianism. The rise of authoritarianism in this country has me deeply concerned.

I'm probably more right-wing than this time last year on the basis that lockdown skeptics are given the right-wing label, but still centre-left at worst.

You aren't right wing at all; you are left libertarian, like many of us! Don't ever make the mistake of thinking you are in a tiny minority; you certainly aren't. It's just others are much more vocal at the moment.

I'm probably fairly centre-left, and remain so - but as a result of the past year I have no confidence whatsoever in any of the left-leaning political parties or media.

Agreed and that's because they are too authoritarian, on Covid issues at least.

....If Farage had to get more MPs on board, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat....

I absolutely understand that people want to send a protest vote to the big parties over Covid, I really do. But Farage is absolutely bonkers and is basically a racist in a not-very-good disguise.

My worry is that the longer this goes on, the more people get fed up of authoritarianism they may actually vote for his party. I think this is a dangerous situation and it has been created by the big parties going all pro-authoritarianism. We are not an authoritarian country and never will be, so they have created a huge gap for Farage to exploit.

The best takeaway for everyone right now is be careful with your votes. Unfortunately, where I live seems infested with people who think lockdowns are great and the current direction is great. It's also through & through Tory.

This absolutely demonstrates my point that this is not a left vs right issue.

It's about authoritarianism vs libertarianism. And make no mistake: taken to an extreme both these options are bad; the question is where the sensible equilibrium lies. I would argue that we have gone too authoritarian and we need to even things up a bit. Too much of either extreme is a very dangerous thing but right now there is not going to be unanimous agreement over what is appropriate during this pandemic. It's causing a lot of friction and friends to fall out with each other and relationships harmed possibly beyond repair.

 

[Richard Scott]

This hasn't changed my political views, it's just I wouldn't vote for any political party at the moment as none have given me any confidence getting this country back on track and stopping all this virus paranoia.

 

[johnnychips]

“I absolutely understand that people want to send a protest vote to the big parties over Covid, I really do. But Farage is absolutely bonkers and is basically a racist in a not-very-good disguise” - Yorkie

Apologies, not sure how to quote it.

I just listened to Farage on a Talk Radio interview. He talked a lot of sense, clearly and plainly, about CV. He said that his party had been renamed ‘Reform UK’.

Then he went on about refugees bringing the virus on dinghies to Dover and I realised why I could never vote for him. Spoilt ballot paper in order, I think.

My lodger reckons people will be so annoyed about what is happening, there will be a record turnout in the local elections in May (if they happen!). Normally it is about 34%. He bets it will be over 40%, I don’t think so.

I won’t tell you why I think I’m on a safe bet, but what do you think?

 

[DB]

My lodger reckons people will be so annoyed about what is happening, there will be a record turnout in the local elections in May (if they happen!). Normally it is about 34%. He bets it will be over 40%, I don’t think so.

I won’t tell you why I think I’m on a safe bet, but what do you think?

I think you are right - and the main issue is that all the parties are offering the same as regards this situation, so if you don't like it who do you vote for? And nothing much else has been talked about at all for the past nearly a year - even Brexit has become a side issue.

 

[Mojo]

I think you are right - and the main issue is that all the parties are offering the same as regards this situation, so if you don't like it who do you vote for? And nothing much else has been talked about at all for the past nearly a year - even Brexit has become a side issue.

It’s also something that makes it quite difficult and I’m really torn on the matter. My [Conservative] Council offers some of the best services in the country, whilst maintaining very low rates of council tax; do I risk voting against them and possibly let Labour in, meaning our services diminish and tax increases, or do I hold my nose and vote Conservative, despite them supporting lockdowns.

 

[DB]

It’s also something that makes it quite difficult and I’m really torn on the matter. My [Conservative] Council offers some of the best services in the country, whilst maintaining very low rates of council tax; do I risk voting against them and possibly let Labour in, meaning our services diminish and tax increases, or do I hold my nose and vote Conservative, despite them supporting lockdowns.

But Labour support lockdowns too, so if that's what you are making the decision on then neither of them offers an alternative.

I've often voted for the Green Party, but their position is no better on this:

Green Party backs lockdown but warns more support is needed for families | The Green Party

www.greenparty.org.uk

The Green Party has backed the government’s decision to follow the science and impose a third national lockdown.

Implying that there is only one interpretation of 'the science', which is of course nonsense.

So I won't be voting for them this time. Unless there happens to be an anti-lockdown independent candidate, I probably won't bother at all.

 

[Cdd89]

The problem with voting Farage - even as a protest vote about lockdown - is it won’t send the message you want it to. You won’t be identified by the credible parties as someone fervently against lockdowns, you’ll be identified as evidence of an undercurrent of racism they feel they need to further pander to.

That doesn’t alter the fact that lockdowns are anti-“Left” in every way conceivable in my opinion, and snappy slogans like “lives before the economy” don’t change that. Hence my previous post that in this one policy area Farage is genuinely supporting things that would benefit the majority, including the groups the left traditionally purports to represent.

 

[yorkie]

Unless there happens to be an anti-lockdown independent candidate, I probably won't bother at all.

I'd absolutely be up for voting for independent anti-lockdown candidates at local elections, to send a clear message to the authoritarians..

 

[NorthOxonian]

I'd absolutely be up for voting for independent anti-lockdown candidates at local elections, to send a clear message to the authoritarians..

I expect there will be many such candidates. The last local elections (in 2019) saw a huge independent surge, and the conditions are now even better for candidates offering a non-partisan alternative. I would also expect some minor parties to surprise people - the SDP may well win seats for the first time in years, by carefully targeting local wards, and offering an economically left-leaning (though not exactly liberal) anti-lockdown option. There is a council seat just down the road from me where they may well win.

 

[TheBeard]

Freedom Party needs forming. A moderate party for all those who want to reclaim LIfe, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Who wants to live somewhere only the super rich can have holidays in Dubai?

 

[backontrack]

The pandemic has only deepened my resentment of the Tories. I think Matt Hancock has done plenty of that. I'm seeing people I know here in the southeast - who have always been pro-Tory - swing markedly leftwards during lockdown. It's because of how severely this has all been mismanaged.

Still very much on the left myself. I'm somewhere between Starmer and Corbyn, I suppose.

I'd vote Labour in an election, because - as massive is the pandemic has been - the most important issue is still the climate emergency and Labour are best-placed to actually do something meaningful about it (plus the Greens have become hopelessly derailed after throwing all their messaging into the People's Vote instead of climate action). I don't expect this forum to be tolerant of that message, but I absolutely stand by it: it is the defining issue from now on. To deny this is to deny the scale of the problem - to deny the climate crisis via minimisation. And, yeah, the Tories aren't anywhere near Labour on that front. Starmer seems fairly keen on retaining Corbyn's climate commitments; that's absolutely the right move. It's the only plan that comes close to sufficing.

 

[21C101]

Hadn’t realised that. The last thing we need or want.

I think it is this authoritarian streak in Labour that is at the root of why they have never managed to merge with the liberals and provide a unified centre left.

While Blair and Starmer are moderate, they are not small l liberal.

 

[jtuk]

On the flip side, is BoJo so bad that people would rather put their morals aside for Blair? He's no Angel but he's also no Blair. Wanting him back feels like cutting your nose off to spite your face to me, but each to their own.

One's a war criminal, the other is committing crimes against humanity against his own country. I'll go with neither of the above.

 

[takno]

The pandemic has only deepened my resentment of the Tories.

Still very much on the left.

I'd vote Labour in an election, because - as massive is the pandemic has been - the most important issue is still the climate emergency and Labour are best-placed to actually do something meaningful about it (plus the Greens have become hopelessly derailed after throwing all their messaging into the People's Vote instead of climate action). I don't expect this forum to be tolerant of that message, but I absolutely stand by it: it is the defining issue from now on.

I'd put it number 4 after getting out of this lockdown, preventing further lockdowns and getting back into at least the EEA. To be fair I think those are required to make real progress on the climate anyway

 

[DorkingMain]

I think you have a very good point there. We tend to think of the NHS as a brilliant national institution but the reality is that *most* Western countries (excluding the US, of course!) have a much better and more functioning system. If anything, I hope the pandemic will get some wheels turning on reforming the NHS.

This assertion is questionable. Trying to define the "best" healthcare system will vary wildly depending on the metrics you use to do so. The UK is certainly nowhere near the bottom of the list on most of those metrics though.

Whilst I agree the NHS has been severely underfunded, mistreated and generally put in a worse position by the actions of successive governments, it functions very well in spite of that. Unfortunately as with all things, it's been cut down to the absolute minimum level needed to function in normal circumstances, and then goes into meltdown when there's an unusual situation. See also: the British railway network.

 

[backontrack]

I'd put it number 4 after getting out of this lockdown, preventing further lockdowns and getting back into at least the EEA. To be fair I think those are required to make real progress on the climate anyway

Respectfully, no. I think the first two are so close as to be the same issue and I wouldn't put the third one over the climate in any case. Our non-membership of the EEA doesn't pose an existential threat to my generation, nor subsequent ones. It's important, I agree - we should rejoin it - but over the climate crisis? Really? No way.

I think it is this authoritarian streak in Labour that is at the root of why they have never managed to merge with the liberals and provide a unified centre left.

While Blair and Starmer are moderate, they are not small l liberal.

Actually I think it's because the Lib Dems aren't always centre-left these days. Most of the time, they're just centre.

There's a sizeable ideological gulf between Ed Miliband and Ed Davey, for instance.

 

[DorkingMain]

The problem with voting Farage - even as a protest vote about lockdown - is it won’t send the message you want it to. You won’t be identified by the credible parties as someone fervently against lockdowns, you’ll be identified as evidence of an undercurrent of racism they feel they need to further pander to.

That doesn’t alter the fact that lockdowns are anti-“Left” in every way conceivable in my opinion, and snappy slogans like “lives before the economy” don’t change that. Hence my previous post that in this one policy area Farage is genuinely supporting things that would benefit the majority, including the groups the left traditionally purports to represent.

I'm afraid I wouldn't trust Farage to run a bath. He might say all the right things, but it's very easy to say all the right things and do the wrong things.

This is the man who used to complain about the EU gravy train, while he was elected as an MEP and didn't take his seat the majority of the time, but happily creamed off an MEP's salary and other benefits. He's an extremely wealthy former investment banker who pretends to be some sort of hero of the working class, while acting to stuff as many of their needs and wants as possible.

 

[backontrack]

I'm afraid I wouldn't trust Farage to run a bath.

He'd salt the water, turning your bath into an impromptu herring-brining station.

 

[DorkingMain]

Respectfully, no. I think the first two are so close as to be the same issue and I wouldn't put the third one over the climate in any case. Our non-membership of the EEA doesn't pose an existential threat to my generation, nor subsequent ones. It's important, I agree - we should rejoin it - but over the climate crisis? Really? No way.

There's probably a case to be made that, despite all of their environmental protections, the EU trade model is actually quite environmentally damaging. Thousands of food miles are generated by British fishermen pulling fish out of the North Sea, exporting them to Europe while we buy fish at a cheaper rate from another place. The EU also encouraged swathes of low-density agriculture and land clearance through subsidies for farmers. It might look enticing from an economic perspective but certainly not from an environmental one.

 

[backontrack]

There's probably a case to be made that, despite all of their environmental protections, the EU trade model is actually quite environmentally damaging. Thousands of food miles are generated by British fishermen pulling fish out of the North Sea, exporting them to Europe while we buy fish at a cheaper rate from another place. The EU also encouraged swathes of low-density agriculture and land clearance through subsidies for farmers. It might look enticing from an economic perspective but certainly not from an environmental one.

Agreed. Degrowth economics has to be the model for now.

 

[yorkie]

Can we try not to stray too far from Has the pandemic made you move further left or right? please.

 

[507021]

Not really, I'm still soft left although I'm sick and tired of politics.

 

[Randomer]

Interesting discussion. I'd agree with previous posters that politically it probably isn't a case of left vs right but more:
- Authoritarian vs Libertarian - in terms of lockdowns, enforcement thereof and pandemic response in general
- Free Market vs Interventionist - in terms of how to respond economically to the pandemic and especially in terms of difficulties caused by the restrictions above.

On a personal level none of the major political parties hold a great appeal to me and never have to be honest, although I have voted in every election I have been entitled to do so, so my views there haven't changed.

In terms of political spectrum pre pandemic I'd say I was fairly fairly libertarian probably leaning towards the free market side with a touch of syndicalism on the labour relations side of things. I see government as having a clearly defined role (defence of the realm, minimally intrusive efforts for the maintenance of the peace, provision of health and education.) However, on a personal level large parts of my industry and indeed myself personally are now only being kept afloat by massive levels of state support which in some ways seems at odds with my political views. Interestingly I hadn't put a huge amount of thought into this before reading this thread.

The government (by this I mean UK and devolved) has done the public trust a great disservice by not being absolutely clear on what restrictions are being promulgated as regulations enforceable by law and mere guidance which isn't. People's acceptance of this lack of clarity is disturbing to me from a civil liberties standpoint but I don't think it is an issue of left vs right. Authoritarian regimes have historically existed that were from the extremes at both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[GusB]

I'm not sure that this thread actually belongs in the Covid section of the forum - it's far more wide-ranging and probably deserves to be in General Discussion.

It has been interesting to read various opinions, and surprising to find out that some forum members with whom I'd previously disagreed on many issues actually share some common ground.

Several years have passed since I visited the Political Compass site and, having read the contents of this thread so far, I decided to give it another go. I was quite surprised to discover that my position has shifted significantly left since my last visit!


(Image above shows my political position on a graph generated by politicalcompass.org)

 

[hst43102]

I'm not sure that this thread actually belongs in the Covid section of the forum - it's far more wide-ranging and probably deserves to be in General Discussion.

It has been interesting to read various opinions, and surprising to find out that some forum members with whom I'd previously disagreed on many issues actually share some common ground.

Several years have passed since I visited the Political Compass site and, having read the contents of this thread so far, I decided to give it another go. I was quite surprised to discover that my position has shifted significantly left since my last visit!


(Image above shows my political position on a graph generated by politicalcompass.org)

I've just had a go with that and was quite astonished to find myself right in the middle of the libertarian left square. I do believe that it's quite accurate, however - a lot of my views on things have made me shift further to the left than I was before the pandemic.

 

[yorksrob]

With the noises coming out today, I would certainly consider voting for a libertarian alternative.

 

[MikeWM]

Very true! (Just don't forget to edit your post to include a text alternative so anyone who is unable to see the image, such as visually impaired people, can read the excellent point you are making! )

Fixed; thanks for the reminder. If the politicians encouraged a similar inclusive approach as this forum does, we'd be in a much better place!

(Having had trouble with my eyesight before - fortunately not currently - I strongly support any policy that helps visually impaired people. I personally find it very disappointing that the big push 15 or 20 years ago to make software more accessible seems to have stalled and actually gone backwards in many respects. But anyway, that's a soapbox for a different thread