Personal Political Beliefs : Has the pandemic made you move further left or right?

[stevetay3]

I hadn’t voted in over twenty years until 2019 when I voted for an independent candidate, a former tory minister who left the government over brexit but the tory still won the seat with a massive majority as always ,so I see no point in voting until the current first past the post system is reformed, for a fairer system. They are all unsuitable for office and so I will not vote again until the system changes and we have candidates who will serve there voters instead of there mates.

 

[ChrisC]

I've just had a go with that and was quite astonished to find myself right in the middle of the libertarian left square. I do believe that it's quite accurate, however - a lot of my views on things have made me shift further to the left than I was before the pandemic.

I have also just had a go at that too. I was also quite surprised how far to the left I found myself although very much in the centre for libertarian/authoritarian. I’ve always seen myself as very much centre right on the lines of a Ken Clarke type of Conservative. I’ve always voted Conservative until the last election when as a remainer I just couldn’t vote for a party that supported Brexit. I’m afraid I threw my vote away by voting LibDem because of their anti Brexit stance. I certainly couldn’t vote Labour especially with Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

I still don’t agree with Brexit but I think I have got over it now. I have had to accept the result of the referendum and now its happening I hope, for the good of the country, that it is a success. I still think of myself as centre right and would like to think that I could continue to vote conservative. However, once again would find it difficult to currently vote for them because of the disastrous way they have handled this pandemic. I think I would be left with no one to vote again for because I still don’t trust Labour.

 

[nlogax]

The pandemic hasn't swayed my political beliefs one iota. It's only confirmed my view that ineptitude from our politicians is equally distributed across the entire political spectrum.

 

[greyman42]

The problem with voting Farage - even as a protest vote about lockdown - is it won’t send the message you want it to. You won’t be identified by the credible parties as someone fervently against lockdowns, you’ll be identified as evidence of an undercurrent of racism they feel they need to further pander to.

I think the "credible" parties would soon work out the reason if there was a surge in votes for Farage, which may well happen if Johnson allows the May elections to go ahead.

 

[MikeWM]

I have also just had a go at that too. I was also quite surprised how far to the left I found myself although very much in the centre for libertarian/authoritarian.

In my experience - going back many years, it had been around for a long while now - people seem to be generally end up more left than they expected. Whether that means people are actually more left than they think, or the methodology is flawed, is up to the reader

I do it every 5 years or so, and so far have always ended up somewhere well into the bottom left corner - but then I do think of myself as a leftwing libertarian, so that is where I'd hope it would put me.

After this nonsense is over, I'll give it another go and see if I've actually moved, or current politics has moved around me.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I’ve floated along the political spectrum my entire life, I voted conservative in 2010, because I wanted change, I was 21 at that time and I voted conservative.

But over the last decade I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m a centrist with moderate right leaning views, I’m also more libertarian than authoritarian, so this lockdown period has made me realise that I have no idea who to vote for in 2024.

I could understand the first lockdown but it’s getting to the point where the results of lockdown will be more detrimental than the virus itself is, I fail to see how deliberately causing a mental health crisis, shutting the economy down, causing job losses and creating poverty and homelessness over a virus which has a high survival rate in most people is necessary.

They keep saying “Protect the NHS”
How exactly? Post covid most of it will be sold off and privatised by some billionaire, are endless lockdowns really worth it?

This is where my moderate left wing side comes out, the government are creating job losses and poverty with lockdowns, high streets will barely survive, we can raise taxes but people’s pockets have been hit hard enough this year.

Don’t get me wrong a part of me pities Boris but I can’t help but laugh at how he is trying to be Churchill now, he wanted to be the Brexit PM to lead Britain out of the chaotic, turbulent and divided 2010s into the promised lands of a new roaring 2020s, all he’s done is lead us out of one chaotic decade into another’s at least until 2023/24 where things will pick up again and Covid will be long behind us by then.

I just cannot see who will win in 2024, Conservatives have ruined any chances of a fifth general election win, Labour will have lost five general elections in a row and would have last won an election twenty years earlier, The Lib Dem’s are a joke, maybe it’s time for a new political party to lead us into the Roaring 2020s

 

[DerekC]

I think the "credible" parties would soon work out the reason if there was a surge in votes for Farage, which may well happen if Johnson allows the May elections to go ahead.

Why on earth would anybody vote for Farage now? Brexit is done.

 

[Cowley]

I'm not sure that this thread actually belongs in the Covid section of the forum - it's far more wide-ranging and probably deserves to be in General Discussion.

It has been interesting to read various opinions, and surprising to find out that some forum members with whom I'd previously disagreed on many issues actually share some common ground.

Several years have passed since I visited the Political Compass site and, having read the contents of this thread so far, I decided to give it another go. I was quite surprised to discover that my position has shifted significantly left since my last visit!

View attachment 89092
(Image above shows my political position on a graph generated by politicalcompass.org)

Well I went all in with my slightly left leaning but also slightly White Van Man answers and ended up pretty much right in the middle of Left/Libertarian.



Really tempted to do it again and go all in with the worst answers I can possibly think of though...

 

[Journeyman]

Well I went all in with my slightly left leaning but also slightly White Van Man answers and ended up pretty much right in the middle of Left/Libertarian.

View attachment 89135

Really tempted to do it again and go all in with the worst answers I can possibly think of though...

Yeah, what does it take to end up in the top right hand corner?

I actually just tried it - it's fairly obvious what answers will get you there, but you'd be a very obnoxious person if those were your actual views.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Anyone who calls for endless lockdowns / mandatory facemasks goes down in my underestimation.

I do not think it is a left vs right thing; it's more authoritarian vs libertarian. Too much of either is a bad thing but I am more libertarian than authoritarian, at least when it comes to our freedoms!

While the correlation may appear to be left vs right, it really isn't.

I am pro-vaccine but absolutely against mandatory vaccinations; indeed Hancock's hints that vaccines might be mandatory was extremely irresponsible and galvanized the anti-vax lobbyists.

It should be up to each individual if they wear a mask or not; mask mandates are creating an epidemic of disability discrimination that we have absolutely no willingness to find a cure for. Any studies wheeled out in support of mask wearing are based on theoretical situations and surgical quality masks that are replenished frequently, not the real world of mask mandates.

I believe in giving individuals the right to choose where possible. If I want to play football with a group of people, I should be able to. The risks are virtually nil yet the benefits are great.

Authoritarians who want these punitive measures have lost my respect. If some people no longer want to talk tome be because of my concerns about mental health, livelihoods, discrimination and much more, then that's their choice.


Same here and my guess is that you are left-leaning like me.


Absolutely; they have alienated me, and at a time when - after the disaster that was Corbyn - I was thinking it may be a party I may actually vote for! No chance now as they have spoken in favour of even tougher restrictions, which would be a disaster for mental health (and other things!)


Problem is it's other countries that will demand this; if we don't implement a vaccination "passport" or other suitable evidence of vaccination, our citizens are going to be disadvantaged.


If the Greens were run by the sort of Greens who are pro-rail (e.g. Greens4HS2) I'd vote for them without question. But too many people in the Green party wish to destroy our way of life and oppose rail schemes, and therefore they are currently not an option for me.


Very true! (Just don't forget to edit your post to include a text alternative so anyone who is unable to see the image, such as visually impaired people, can read the excellent point you are making! )


Those people are wrong. It makes you libertarian not right wing.

It also makes you more caring about people with disabilities, anxieties, medical conditions etc. These are not what I would consider "right wing" traits (though the terms left vs right are hotly contested terms as they could refer to a range of issues such as financial, social and more; a policy that results in discrimination & abuse directed disabled people, such as a mask mandate, is not what I'd deem a "left" wing policy!).


The Conservative party has the potential to be the right party for you if the right people were running it.


I detest anarchism; it's downright dangerous. But I get what you mean about the evils of authoritarianism. The rise of authoritarianism in this country has me deeply concerned.


You aren't right wing at all; you are left libertarian, like many of us! Don't ever make the mistake of thinking you are in a tiny minority; you certainly aren't. It's just others are much more vocal at the moment.


Agreed and that's because they are too authoritarian, on Covid issues at least.

I absolutely understand that people want to send a protest vote to the big parties over Covid, I really do. But Farage is absolutely bonkers and is basically a racist in a not-very-good disguise.

My worry is that the longer this goes on, the more people get fed up of authoritarianism they may actually vote for his party. I think this is a dangerous situation and it has been created by the big parties going all pro-authoritarianism. We are not an authoritarian country and never will be, so they have created a huge gap for Farage to exploit.


This absolutely demonstrates my point that this is not a left vs right issue.

It's about authoritarianism vs libertarianism. And make no mistake: taken to an extreme both these options are bad; the question is where the sensible equilibrium lies. I would argue that we have gone too authoritarian and we need to even things up a bit. Too much of either extreme is a very dangerous thing but right now there is not going to be unanimous agreement over what is appropriate during this pandemic. It's causing a lot of friction and friends to fall out with each other and relationships harmed possibly beyond repair.

I agree with all of this, yes you’re spot on it’s not a right vs left thing, it hasn’t been that way for years, this is indeed libertarian vs authoritarian, I have left wing friends who are against further lockdowns, restrictions and mandatory vaccines, I have right wing friends who want all of that and they themselves have come up against other right wingers who agree with some left wing people that lockdowns are causing more damage than good.

We need this distinction now that it’s libertarian vs authoritarian, Piers Corbyn who is left wing has been arrested numerous times for protesting against lockdowns (I admire Piers Corbyn he’s far braver and more than truer to his beliefs than his brother)

 

[johnnychips]

Is there a link somewhere to this graph people keep filling in? I’d love to try it.

 

[Cowley]

Yeah, what does it take to end up in the top right hand corner?

I actually just tried it - it's fairly obvious what answers will get you there, but you'd be a very obnoxious person if those were your actual views.

All I can say is that I’m more right wing than Mrs C but still slightly to the left of Hitler.

 

[GusB]

Is there a link somewhere to this graph people keep filling in? I’d love to try it.

My apologies - I meant to post the link to the site. It's https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

[Cowley]

The thing about discussions like this is that you can read how someone feels politically on a screen, but the truth is that even if they have quite different opinions to yourself you might find that you have far more common ground than you realise if you actually have a proper conversation with eye contact over a pint in a pub (remember them?) and are able to find common ground face to face.
All of this isn’t real, which as a general rule is why I won’t say anything online that I wouldn’t say to someone in a pub in person.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Here's my compass. I've become slightly less authoritarian.

 

[Mag_seven]

The pandemic hasn't swayed my political beliefs one iota. It's only confirmed my view that ineptitude from our politicians is equally distributed across the entire political spectrum.

It has also confirmed my suspicion that just because you have power it doesn't necessarily imply you have intelligence.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not just party politics where my views have shifted on account of the pandemic.

It's peculiar state of affairs really. We've had some excellent work in producing vaccines and finging treatments, and medical professionals have been doing some of their best work in living memory. Yet my trust in the medical/scientific establishment is the lowest its ever been.

My views on international relations have shifted - I've become a lot more hawkish on communist China and other authoritarian regimes, whilst I've generally become more relaxed over differences with other Western countries.

 

[notlob.divad]

If you have any evidence showing that they have, please do post it here...

I know several retired doctors and nurses who have gone back or delayed their retirement.

My friends elderly parents have both gone back in the last month to help with vaccinations.
My Auntie delayed her retirement by a year.

 

[bramling]

It's not just party politics where my views have shifted on account of the pandemic.

It's peculiar state of affairs really. We've had some excellent work in producing vaccines and finging treatments, and medical professionals have been doing some of their best work in living memory. Yet my trust in the medical/scientific establishment is the lowest its ever been.

My views on international relations have shifted - I've become a lot more hawkish on communist China and other authoritarian regimes, whilst I've generally become more relaxed over differences with other Western countries.

The elephant in the room is, of course, China. Even if it was found the Covid was a deliberate thing, it's unlikely the west would want to stir too much trouble over it.

My concern is with people like Ferguson, whose science is either incompetent, or polluted by a political agenda. I'm not sure this applies to Whitty, who seems like a pretty genuine guy who is painfully aware that he is first in line to be thrown under the bus by Boris when they need to find someone to be made accountable for public anger over the death figure. Remember when Boris said the buck would stop with himself in this government? I bet Whitty has been lined up to be the fall-guy from the start of this.

 

[yorksrob]

The elephant in the room is, of course, China. Even if it was found the Covid was a deliberate thing, it's unlikely the west would want to stir too much trouble over it.

My concern is with people like Ferguson, whose science is either incompetent, or polluted by a political agenda. I'm not sure this applies to Whitty, who seems like a pretty genuine guy who is painfully aware that he is first in line to be thrown under the bus by Boris when they need to find someone to be made accountable for public anger over the death figure. Remember when Boris said the buck would stop with himself in this government? I bet Whitty has been lined up to be the fall-guy from the start of this.

The toxic factor with China is our overdependance on it. It would be a lot easier to circumvent if our supply lines were more varied.

In terms of the medical/scientific establishment I just don't trust them to take a balanced or proportionate view. To be fair to Whitty, his position seems to be that we may need to take a balanced view at some undisclosed time in the distant future, however that won't be much use if the fabric of the country has already been destroyed (along with my sanity probably).

 

[bramling]

The toxic factor with China is our overdependance on it. It would be a lot easier to circumvent if our supply lines were more varied.

In terms of the medical/scientific establishment I just don't trust them to take a balanced or proportionate view. To be fair to Whitty, his position seems to be that we may need to take a balanced view at some undisclosed time in the distant future, however that won't be much use if the fabric of the country has already been destroyed (along with my sanity probably).

I think the difficulty with Whitty is that in all probability Boris hasn't set him any specific measurables as to what sort of outcome they're realistically aiming for. Instead I bet there's similar vague stuff, like the "follow the science" and "get the virus down" lines.

Because Boris has done no expectation management with the population, it follows that Whitty's position is both difficult and unenviable. I suspect this is why we've recently seen a few hints of him trying to lay the boundaries for what will be political decisions, like how many deaths is politically acceptable.

We must also remember that both Whitty and Vallance are advisers, not policy-makers. That role falls to the likes of Johnson, Hancock, Patel, Williamson et al. Frightening, isn't it?!

 

[yorksrob]

I think the difficulty with Whitty is that in all probability Boris hasn't set him any specific measurables as to what sort of outcome they're realistically aiming for. Instead I bet there's similar vague stuff, like the "follow the science" and "get the virus down" lines.

Because Boris has done no expectation management with the population, it follows that Whitty's position is both difficult and unenviable. I suspect this is why we've recently seen a few hints of him trying to lay the boundaries for what will be political decisions, like how many deaths is politically acceptable.

We must also remember that both Whitty and Vallance are advisers, not policy-makers. That role falls to the likes of Johnson, Hancock, Patel, Williamson et al. Frightening, isn't it?!

Given where we are with the vaccines, I feel that I ought to be more optimistic than in June, but I don't feel it.

What's that old saying ? "Always jam tomorrow, never jam today".

I felt that in April/May, there was a genuine determination to get up and running once cases were down. Now I just feel that they'll string it out to be as cautious as possible.

By the time this is finished, we'll be left with a shell of a country where the only things left to do are having zoom meetings, watching TV and buying foreign tat off of the internet.

 

[bramling]

Given where we are with the vaccines, I feel that I ought to be more optimistic than in June, but I don't feel it.

What's that old saying ? "Always jam tomorrow, never jam today".

I felt that in April/May, there was a genuine determination to get up and running once cases were down. Now I just feel that they'll string it out to be as cautious as possible.

There is properly something nefarious going on with the way the goalposts keep being moved. Whilst I am pretty cynical about most things, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, however on this we have a perfect mix of nefarious agendas combined with an utterly incompetent government, which is what is making me genuinely bothered about where this is now heading.

I was quite happy to throw weight behind lockdown last year as a short-term attempt to buy time to get on top of things. We are now into the realm of having our way of life completely overturned, all built on what is essentially hysteria. One can't entirely blame the population, as some of the TV news has been utterly alarmist, the last few days in particular.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone in the government even contemplate what might happen should the vaccines run into issues. Any politician with backbone should have been gently floating this issue on the agenda. Goodness knows that's going to happen with the economic issues which have been created - I suspect there's no plan for that either.

 

[yorksrob]

There is properly something nefarious going on with the way the goalposts keep being moved. Whilst I am pretty cynical about most things, I'm not one for conspiracy theories, however on this we have a perfect mix of nefarious agendas combined with an utterly incompetent government, which is what is making me genuinely bothered about where this is now heading.

I was quite happy to throw weight behind lockdown last year as a short-term attempt to buy time to get on top of things. We are now into the realm of having our way of life completely overturned, all built on what is essentially hysteria. One can't entirely blame the population, as some of the TV news has been utterly alarmist, the last few days in particular.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone in the government even contemplate what might happen should the vaccines run into issues. Any politician with backbone should have been gently floating this issue on the agenda. Goodness knows that's going to happen with the economic issues which have been created - I suspect there's no plan for that either.

Yes, I think the "so if the vaccine doesn't work, what then ?" conversation would be a useful way of posing the limitations of restrictions, which is probably why they don't want to approach it. Instead we get the "vaccines aren't the magic bullet" conversation which seems to be a softening up for never ending restrictions.

It certainly leads to a death of trust with the lot of them on my part.

 

[bramling]

Yes, I think the "so if the vaccine doesn't work, what then ?" conversation would be a useful way of posing the limitations of restrictions, which is probably why they don't want to approach it. Instead we get the "vaccines aren't the magic bullet" conversation which seems to be a softening up for never ending restrictions.

It certainly leads to a death of trust with the lot of them on my part.

The trouble is they are forever tainted by the "20,000 deaths would be a good outcome". Ever since then Boris has been in damage limitation mode. When I say damage limitation I mean to his ego, rather than to the country!

 

[yorksrob]

The trouble is they are forever tainted by the "20,000 deaths would be a good outcome". Ever since then Boris has been in damage limitation mode. When I say damage limitation I mean to his ego, rather than to the country!

One reality they need to start getting people used to, is that there won't be a final death toll.

 

[bramling]

One reality they need to start getting people used to, is that there won't be a final death toll.

Absolutely. I would much prefer the discussion on the news to be about excess deaths. That has hardly been mentioned recently. Meanwhile social media is full of emotive stuff like comparing the US death figures to 9/11, which I find extremely unhelpful.

Likewise we're now well and truly in to a blame game, which again comes back to that 20,000 issue. By the end of this week it's all the fault of all those people going to parties, earlier in the week it was people in supermarkets without masks. Again, not helpful.

 

[yorksrob]

Absolutely. I would much prefer the discussion on the news to be about excess deaths. That has hardly been mentioned recently. Meanwhile social media is full of emotive stuff like comparing the US death figures to 9/11, which I find extremely unhelpful.

Likewise we're now well and truly in to a blame game, which again comes back to that 20,000 issue. By the end of this week it's all the fault of all those people going to parties, earlier in the week it was people in supermarkets without masks. Again, not helpful.

Yes, I agree with all of that.

 

[daodao]

The sheer incompetence during the Covid crisis of arrogant vile right-wing laissez-faire leaders like Bojo and Bolsonaro has swayed my political views. Even Corbyn would have been a better PM, with the assistance of the able McDonnell (and his little red book).

 

[cactustwirly]

I don't know who I will vote for.
If there is a change in leadership the conservatives I'll vote for them.
The back benchers have shown they actually care about people and their livelihoods and voted against the measures. Unlike the Labour party who have shown they're only interested in playing party politics.