Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by irish_rail, 19 Apr 2019.

  1. RichT54

    RichT54 Member

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    I thought that only applies to petitions raised on the official parliament website (https://petition.parliament.uk/) whereas the petition referred to in the OP is on https://you.38degrees.org.uk/ ?
     
  2. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    That might explain the 800s, with their ridiculous PFI-type contract, but the 802s - which form the bulk of the Plymouth/Penzance services - are conventionally leased. So that’s not an excuse.
     
  3. takno

    takno Established Member

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    As far as I can tell the issue is with floating luggage rather than crowding, and applies to most West country services at the moment rather than just a few. In those situations there usually isn't too much of a problem for people getting down the train to a buffet, as long as they don't try to take a comically oversized trolley full of crisps and lukewarm water with them as they go.
     
  4. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    I don't believe there is an "infamous" contract on the 802s though. No reason why they couldn't get a buffet but would probably need to be the 9 cars not the 5 cars which may cause a headache, or if common sense prevailed a reshuffle....
    Glad to hear luke is looking into this, a pity the local Tory MPs are quiet on the matter, although for Johnny Mercer if it doesn't involve the military it isn't worth talking about so I'm not particularly surprised....
     
  5. TheLastMinute

    TheLastMinute Member

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    Because the DfT wanted the 802s to have the same interiors as the 800s. GWR is operated under a Direct Award contract, they get to call the shots and would only permit the 802 order to proceed on that basis.
     
  6. northernbelle

    northernbelle Member

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    As has been said many, many times on here. But it doesn't align with people's agenda so seems to get ignored.
     
  7. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Perhaps you should read my post in the context that it was written and what it was replying to before parroting the usual.

    Specifically, it was about the contractual arrangement with (s)Hitachi/Agility. The 802s are not on the same contract, so are likely easier to modify should the stars somehow miraculously align between DfT and WorstGroup.
     
  8. R G NOW.

    R G NOW. Member

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    Some of the trolleys are overloaded. on one train I was on, chrisp's were falling off and into the gangway, leaving people picking them up and eating. They had free ones.
     
  9. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Apart from Luke Pollard, Ben Bradshaw and (now) Sarah Wollaston we're landed with Tory MPs in the S.W. Given the current political position, some of them might be well advised to be seen to be taking an interest. I like stirring Derek Thomas MP up, so I think an email will soon be flying his way!
     
  10. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Quite. With polls now showing the South west is in favour of remain , the Tory MPs should be trying to pick up brownie points where they can if they are to have any hope of being 're elected...
     
  11. HamworthyGoods

    HamworthyGoods Member

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    We’ve been over this so many times, common sense doesn’t bring you the ability to stable 9 car IETs overnight in Cornwall....

    That issue simply won’t go away and DfT will not fund the multi-million pound works to lay new sidings at Ponsandane (the level crossing by Long Rock precludes extension of the existing) just allow buffet cars which they the DfT didn’t want in the first place.

    I don’t think anyone is disputing buffets would be a good idea it’s just realism it’s not going to happen and it’s not nespoke to the Cornish Great Western services; heavily loaded Cross Country services suffer the same issues with catering trolleys.
     
  12. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Ah yes but the cross country services see little political pressure, GWR services on the other hand are a different beast. Personally I will be shocked if we do not have buffets on the west country services within the next 5 years.
     
  13. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    I'd love you to be right - I could fantasise about the aforementioned (by me) Derek Thomas manning one once he's duly lost his current job.
     
  14. Master29

    Master29 Established Member

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    It`s not about funding an extension of Ponsandane just for the sake of a mini buffet. It`s about the stabling of more 9 car units which should have been a given in the first place. However, you are quite correct in the fact the DaFT are unlikely to even consider this.
     
  15. R G NOW.

    R G NOW. Member

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    What do they do in the 10 car iets, They would have to have two trolley's I would assume?. Although had heard that some of these trains only had one, and people in the carriages without one get thirsty. Also bring back the dining cars. The preserved railways have even better catering facilities.
     
    Last edited: 23 Jul 2019
  16. R G NOW.

    R G NOW. Member

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    Why can't they put an extra carriage on a 9 car iet and provide a buffet and dining area all in one. They would have to be built separately of course.
     
  17. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    What they are meant to do: 2 trolleys
    What they actually often do: 1 or 0 trolleys

    Funnily enough VTWC manage to staff the buffets in both halves of double Voyagers reasonably consistently.

    It's not surprising that preserved railways do better - they are selling an experience, not a journey from A to B (though I have used preserved railways for the latter purpose on the odd occasion) and for many a higher spend on catering will be part of that experience.
     
  18. Goldfish62

    Goldfish62 Established Member

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    Did the DfT from the outset want buffets on East Coast or were VTEC forceful in persuading them?
     
  19. Taplowgreen

    Taplowgreen New Member

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    Because there is little or no demand, hence the demise of Travelling Chef. Better value food is available to most before boarding.
     
  20. Taplowgreen

    Taplowgreen New Member

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    Because there is little demand for dining, hence the demise of Travelling Chef. Better value food is available to most before boarding.
     
  21. HamworthyGoods

    HamworthyGoods Member

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    VTEC proposed it as a change to the original DfT specification of no buffet.
     
  22. ashkeba

    ashkeba Member

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    And the railway is run for most ie Londoners and London commuters, not for all.

    Travelling Chef was a good basic idea, executed poorly and available only inconsistently. A consistent bordbistro or RailJet style offer should work and there are already kitchens sat idle that could deliver it.
     
  23. Clarence Yard

    Clarence Yard Member

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    I think you will find that all bidders did because it was one of, iirc, around 12 alterations that franchise bidders could make to the base specification. Most of those 12 were very minor.
     
  24. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

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    Hopefully they were still in their packets. I'd love to know why a 3 hour 20 min journey from Waterloo to Exeter only needs a trolley and a similar length trip from Paddington to Plymouth or a shorter one to Exeter, needs a buffet. Are GWR customers less capable of buying food 'to go', or what?
     
  25. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Maybe because few people actually do the full journey from Waterloo to Exeter, whereas on GWR many people are going the full length trips.
     
  26. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Hence my different views for the Bristols/Cardiffs and the Westcountry service. I suspect you'd find that the latter has the largest proportion of people doing the full journey (or near to it) than any other service of that kind of length. It really does call for something more than a trolley - to me a DB-style Bistrowagen would be an excellent fit for it. It really isn't like most other UK IC services. It's much more comparable to the Chieftain or KX-Aberdeen direct services, or even the Caledonian Sleeper minus the kip.

    The shorter services are fine with a trolley provided it's reliably there, of course.

    What's also worthy of note is that if you're on an Advance it's less likely you have chance to stop off for refreshments, because your ticket doesn't allow it. So on a walk-up I might break that journey up somewhere like Plymouth to have a meal, but if I'm on an Advance I can't...
     
  27. Geoff DC

    Geoff DC Member

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    The other thing to remember is that many passengers from Paddington/Reading to Cornwall have just come off a 4/6+hour flight to Gatwick or Thiefrow & haven't had a chance to stock up with goodies from a friendly supermarket
     
  28. HowardGWR

    HowardGWR Established Member

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    Same applies to those coming off a flight and travelling to stations west of Salisbury which can often be a 3 or 6 car well-filled train, so I can assure you that hurried purchases from the stalls are made at Clapham Junction or Woking. This notion that people travelling more than 2 hours need a buffet to Plymouth one way, just because they cover e greater distance at greater speed, is simply not logical. It's the time spent on a train that ups the need for refreshment facilities on it.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Yes, but a very large number of people on that train aren't going to Plymouth, they are going to Cornwall. That was my point. They aren't like the VTWC Glasgows where it's half empty by the time you pass Oxenholme. They're heavily loaded pretty much all the way. There are a very large number of people on those trains making 5+ hour journeys, which as I said you'll only otherwise find in the UK on the Chieftain, the Aberdeen directs and the Caledonian Sleeper.
     
  30. irish_rail

    irish_rail Member

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    Spot on assessment that. These trains really are busy for the majority of their journey far more so than the wcml, which is what sets it apart from the shorter GWR and SWR routes. I'm starting to think we made a mistake in campaigning against the west country services getting it's own franchise. Though they'd probably of wrecked it by grouping it with the local Cornish stuff anyway....
     

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