Petition to bring back the buffet on GWR

[Bromley boy]

I was told they had no lemon as they were not allowed knives to slice them as they could be used as weapons! Absolutely true and thereafter brought our own pre sliced lemon on board to around the nonsense.

Makes you wonder how airlines cope with serving drinks with “ice and a slice” - presumably the lemons are pre sliced by Gate Gourmet or whichever provider they use.

 

[Bromley boy]

I think the key to it is a relatively premium offering, as people baulk at, say, 3 quid for a can of Fosters/Strongbow but will pay that for a more premium beer or cider. Tea, well, it has to be Yorkshire (and it is on LNER). Coffee, well, again people will pay more for premium espresso based coffees, or for a trolley those filter cups used by TPE and Ryanair are good. (Ryanair are quite good at getting the on board food offer right, as with effectively zero staff cost as the cabin crew have to be there anyway they can make a packet out of it).

Agreed. Nobody wants to pay for a can of tepid, cheap lager, or for tepid, rubbish coffee served at the same temperature.

Go higher end with the on board catering and people can bring their own supplies if they don’t wish to buy on board.

Tastes and expectations have moved on. Most areas of public catering now reflect this - artisan coffee shops, pubs, even museum cafes and cinemas now tend to pitch more of a premium offering than they did in yesteryear.

 

[Master29]

I think the key to it is a relatively premium offering, as people baulk at, say, 3 quid for a can of Fosters/Strongbow but will pay that for a more premium beer or cider

Indeed. Many who would look away from high priced drinks on trains would willingly pay similar, and in some cases even higher prices in pubs or clubs,

Good work.

We should all have better things to do on a Sunday night shouldn’t we?!

What can I say, that Wimbledon final was exhausting just to watch, and the wrong man won!

That’s my excuse anyway!

Oh I dunno. Djokovic has kind of grown on me in this tournament but fair play to Federer. A gent to the end. What a final though. Must keep on subject however.

 

[class26]

Makes you wonder how airlines cope with serving drinks with “ice and a slice” - presumably the lemons are pre sliced by Gate Gourmet or whichever provider they use.

Difference is all luggage must be stowed away and everyone has a seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Difference is all luggage must be stowed away and everyone has a seat.

That has a bearing on whether the trolley can get through, but not on whether drinks can be served with "ice and a slice".

 

[F Great Eastern]

I would have thought that service would not be massively busy going out from London in the morning.

There are no buffets on the IEP's so they offer nothing.

How do they offer hot food then as the GWR menu suggests they do.

Also on the IEP's if you are a standard class person who goes to Pullman dining, is there space for luggage and also realistically how long can you eek out in a First class seat by dining there before getting shoved back to standard class.

I've done Pullman quite a few times on First class ticket for lunch/dinner but never for breakfast or on standard class.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Shows how long it is since I’ve bought a coffee after boarding!

Given the huge availability of refreshments available to passengers at large stations and very near stations, this maybe one of the reasons why the DfT decided to focus on seats rather than a buffet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given the huge availability of refreshments available to passengers at large stations and very near stations, this maybe one of the reasons why the DfT decided to focus on seats rather than a buffet.

Round and round and round we go

Been to any of the Cornish stations lately? Where's the M&S Food at Bodmin Parkway?

 

[PaulHarding150]

How do they offer hot food then as the GWR menu suggests they do.

Also on the IEP's if you are a standard class person who goes to Pullman dining, is there space for luggage and also realistically how long can you eek out in a First class seat by dining there before getting shoved back to standard class.

I live in Cardiff and have used the Pullman service going to London several times, I normally head down just before the train arrives in Bristol Parkway and have always remained there until Paddington.

I've only done it once from London, where I sat in the Pullman carriage before the train departed London and remained their until Cardiff.

Theoretically I could have been asked to move once I'd finished, but I've never seen it busy enough to warrant it and the staff are very friendly and have always seemed happy for me to stay there while keeping me topped up with coffee.

Users of this website will know about the service and despite it being announced over the tannoy on the train, it really is a little secret that so few people know about.

I can't recall the size of the luggage racks in first, I'd imagine they're the same standard as standard so you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Round and round and round we go

Been to any of the Cornish stations lately? Where's the M&S Food at Bodmin Parkway?

Reread my original post. I said large stations.

(But I do notice there is a cafe at Bodmin, open seven days a week including from 7:30am six days a week)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reread my original post. I said large stations.

(But I do notice there is a cafe at Bodmin, open seven days a week including from 7:30am six days a week)

I'd imagine there's actually a fair bit of business for them for the commuters who take the Sleeper westbound. When I did it there were quite a lot boarding there.

 

[Master29]

I'd imagine there's actually a fair bit of business for them for the commuters who take the Sleeper westbound. When I did it there were quite a lot boarding there.

It is a popular little spot and a little Oasis compared to many of the stations along that route. Pretty basic but friendly and quite popular for bacon rolls and sarnie`s. Never had one there myself but going on feedback locally.

 

[pt_mad]

Yes, I think someone said that upthread (might have been you) that they could be far more innovative in how they do it - perhaps an ordering app, but staff also coming through taking orders. The Westcountry service is quite unusual in that it's (for the UK) a very long-distance train on which almost everyone is making either the entire journey or very close to it (even the VTWC Scottish services aren't like that, though I guess ECML Edinburghs pretty much are, as is the Chieftain). Therefore there is plenty of time for such a service to be carried out properly.

The Bristols and the likes are of course a bit different and might work better with a "conventional" trolley just doing tea, coffee, canned soft drinks, water and confectionary, though most will just take their own on a short journey like that.

Where abouts is the kitchen located on 80x stock? Would it mean standard passengers having to walk through first class if a permanent fixed type arrangement was located there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where abouts is the kitchen located on 80x stock? Would it mean standard passengers having to walk through first class if a permanent fixed type arrangement was located there?

It's at the end, and yes it potentially could result in that which is a downside if you put a buffet there. But that wasn't my proposal - my proposal was for an improved at seat service. Only staff would be walking through with the orders.

 

[infobleep]

Given the huge availability of refreshments available to passengers at large stations and very near stations, this maybe one of the reasons why the DfT decided to focus on seats rather than a buffet.

But why didn't they focus on seats on LNER? Do they want LNER passengers to stand? Do they feel LNER passengers will walk down the train but GWR passengers will not?

I'd prefer a buffet myself. Last year I went to Bath. I wanted to get some breakfast. I joined the train at Reading. I didn't see a trolly. Eventually I went to look for it. I saw it at the end of the carriage and I assumed it would come back. But no, it went into thr next 5, which I couldn't reach and I never saw it again. Thus a sale lost. That's a lost to GWR rather than DfT though, so cynically speaking, why should the DfT care.

This year I was going to Cardiff. Eventually the trolly came through. Only breakfast related hot thing they had was porridge. Not sure if they had anything cold that was suitable. Either way they lost a sale. I'm sure there was plenty of crisps, cakes and chocolates though, if you like having those for breakfast!

I use to enjoy the bacon rolls on the go. No chance now. I was initially on the 6:06 from Guildford to Reading, which has no catering and nor does Guildford station at 6am in the morning I believe.

 

[pt_mad]

It's at the end, and yes it potentially could result in that which is a downside if you put a buffet there. But that wasn't my proposal - my proposal was for an improved at seat service. Only staff would be walking through with the orders.

Downside being it'd suffer with the same problem if the train was heavily loaded and staff couldn't get down or carry hot orders down.

If they could find a way of basing the trolley in some arranged fixed location, with room for staff and customer movement and paper bags available, that might be good.

 

[Oonagh]

So sad travelling today from Paddington to Plymouth (a journey that I have doing for over 20 years) to discover the demise of the onboard buffet service and do discover that the dining car has vanished! The service used to be outstanding! Nice new trains but getting a bottle of water was a mammoth effort and we had a carriage missing. These trains are always full so why has this essential service been scrapped?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Downside being it'd suffer with the same problem if the train was heavily loaded and staff couldn't get down or carry hot orders down.

It wouldn't, though, because a member of staff carrying stuff isn't as awkward to get through as a trolley.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I live in Cardiff and have used the Pullman service going to London several times, I normally head down just before the train arrives in Bristol Parkway and have always remained there until Paddington.

I've only done it once from London, where I sat in the Pullman carriage before the train departed London and remained their until Cardiff.

Theoretically I could have been asked to move once I'd finished, but I've never seen it busy enough to warrant it and the staff are very friendly and have always seemed happy for me to stay there while keeping me topped up with coffee.

Perfect - hopefully I get a seat then and can stay there - I'll be getting off at Cardiff so seems ideal for me from what you are saying. when I've had the lunch and dinner the meals have been amazing but never been on the right trains to sample the Breakfast before!

Technically though, don't general First Class holders without a Pullman reservation get priority over standard class? Therefore probably worth me waiting until we're 10-15 minutes outside Paddington before going down to the front of the train to try and avail of the service?

 

[Master29]

But why didn't they focus on seats on LNER? Do they want LNER passengers to stand? Do they feel LNER passengers will walk down the train but GWR passengers will not?

I'd prefer a buffet myself. Last year I went to Bath. I wanted to get some breakfast. I joined the train at Reading. I didn't see a trolly. Eventually I went to look for it. I saw it at the end of the carriage and I assumed it would come back. But no, it went into thr next 5, which I couldn't reach and I never saw it again. Thus a sale lost. That's a lost to GWR rather than DfT though, so cynically speaking, why should the DfT care.

This year I was going to Cardiff. Eventually the trolly came through. Only breakfast related hot thing they had was porridge. Not sure if they had anything cold that was suitable. Either way they lost a sale. I'm sure there was plenty of crisps, cakes and chocolates though, if you like having those for breakfast!

I use to enjoy the bacon rolls on the go. No chance now. I was initially on the 6:06 from Guildford to Reading, which has no catering and nor does Guildford station at 6am in the morning I believe.

This is precisely the point. There are 70 fewer seats on LNER 800`s in both 9 and 10 car formations on lines which are both busy. I`m not sure of the logic here.

 

[Clip]

Indeed. Many who would look away from high priced drinks on trains would willingly pay similar, and in some cases even higher prices in pubs or clubs,

Theres a bit more to a pub or club than a train journey though but if the ale was good then id happily pay a bit more for it anywhere - even paid a tenner for a pint once - it was amazing

 

[PaulHarding150]

This is precisely the point. There are 70 fewer seats on LNER 800`s in both 9 and 10 car formations on lines which are both busy. I`m not sure of the logic here.

Virgin as was, fought harder than First/GWR.

At one point the 800s where going to be plain white until VirginEC kicked up a fuss.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Technically though, don't general First Class holders without a Pullman reservation get priority over standard class? Therefore probably worth me waiting until we're 10-15 minutes outside Paddington before going down to the front of the train to try and avail of the service?

First class holders get priority yes, but remember this is an off peak train running mid morning when most people have had breakfast. I honestly don’t think you have any need to worry about capacity.

 

[broadgage]

So sad travelling today from Paddington to Plymouth (a journey that I have doing for over 20 years) to discover the demise of the onboard buffet service and do discover that the dining car has vanished! The service used to be outstanding! Nice new trains but getting a bottle of water was a mammoth effort and we had a carriage missing. These trains are always full so why has this essential service been scrapped?

Welcome.
I agree with your views and consider that providing a buffet is part of running an inter city train service.
I suspect however that you and I may be in a minority on this forum. Many members of this forum are great supporters of the new trains and have stated that a trolley would be better than a buffet.
Now that the trolley is usually static, we are starting to hear suggestions that a static trolley is EVEN BETTER, to be followed no doubt by claims that no trolley is better still.
Progress I know but still regrettable.

BTW the Pullman service DOES still run on a limited number of services, I certainly enjoy it. First class customers get priority in use of the Pullman, but standard class may also dine if space permits.

 

[RLBH]

I am clear in my mind though that if catering on board is essential to you, you are foolish not to come prepared in case it isn't working either through a technical or staff issue

The Highland Chieftain leaves Kings Cross at 1200, and arrives in Inverness at 2005. The return working leaves at 0755 and arrives at 1549. That straddles at least one mealtime, and quite possibly two. It is the train of choice for people from the Highlands travelling to and from London, for obvious reasons.

It is reasonable to pack snacks. It may be reasonable to bring sandwiches. It is not reasonable to expect passengers to be on a train for eight hours without any possibility of getting refreshments. Someone who knows that the stop at Edinburgh is extended might be able to run to the station facilities and back, but woe betide them if there's a queue, or the train is running late, so the stop isn't the advertised nine minutes.

There was a survey of rail users done a few years ago, looking at on-train facilities. The expectation - not one matched by reality, but what passengers would want to see - was that catering was unnecessary for journeys under an hour, a nice-to-have for journeys of one to two hours, and essential on longer

But why didn't they focus on seats on LNER? Do they want LNER passengers to stand? Do they feel LNER passengers will walk down the train but GWR passengers will not?

Because the intercity trains on the inner GWML have to pretend to be high density commuter trains. On the ECML, the commuter traffic is picked up by high density outer suburban trains - Thameslink and Great Northern - so the intercity trains are free to be intercity trains. LNER doesn't stop south of Peterborough; if GWR didn't stop east of Swindon, which is about the same distance, they'd have a lot less crowding to deal with.

 

[Master29]

Virgin as was, fought harder than First/GWR.

At one point the 800s where going to be plain white until VirginEC kicked up a fuss.

That`s not what is constantly being said elsewhere. We keep being parroted that this was the Daft`s decision.

 

[pt_mad]

.Now that the trolley is usually static, we are starting to hear suggestions that a static trolley is EVEN BETTER, to be followed no doubt by claims that no trolley is better still.
Progress I know but still regrettable.

But wouldn't a static trolley that was built into the design, with a proper place for it to stand so it wasn't obstructing anything, basically be a mini buffet of sorts? Surely a buffet just means it's refreshments and drinks served from a fixed place rather than wheeled up and down the train?

 

[broadgage]

But wouldn't a static trolley that was built into the design, with a proper place for it to stand so it wasn't obstructing anything, basically be a mini buffet of sorts? Surely a buffet just means it's refreshments and drinks served from a fixed place rather than wheeled up and down the train?

No not really.
A proper buffet offers freshly brewed real coffee, hot cooked snacks such as bacon rolls, and chilled beer and soft drinks.

A trolley offers a very limited selection of poor quality hot drinks, if available at all, lukewarm beer, and no hot food.

Supporters of the IETs suggested that the trolley would be wonderful and that the advantages of being served at ones table would compensate for the reduced range.
We are now hearing suggestions that a static trolley would be even better. What rubbish. A static trolley combines the limited stock of poor quality products, with having to walk and find it, or more likely find it not available.

Rather than trying different permutations of the failed trolley service, time to admit defeat and bring back a proper buffet with decent stock and facilities. A MINIMUM offering IMHO should include
4 types/styles of real coffee. 4 choices of tea. drinking chocolate. hot soup.
6 different chilled soft drinks.
6 choices of beer, cider, and lager, all cold.
several choices of wine in different bottle sizes.
6 different spirits and a choice of mixers.
3 different hot snacks such as bacon rolls, beef in a bun, and hot sausage in a bun.
Several choices of sandwiches.
Other cold snacks such as pork pies and scotch eggs.
Crisps, peanuts, confectionary.

Cant offer that from a trolley, not even the new static trolley that is so much better than a mobile trolley.

 

[Master29]

But wouldn't a static trolley that was built into the design, with a proper place for it to stand so it wasn't obstructing anything, basically be a mini buffet of sorts? Surely a buffet just means it's refreshments and drinks served from a fixed place rather than wheeled up and down the train?

Sounds good on paper but what is the point in advertising trolleys that function the same as a mini buffet? And so we start again. Granted you wouldn`t lose any seats but surely this dictates a mini buffet as the answer. One can`t have it both ways if they believe a trolley is the answer. It becomes a point of semantics rather than a personal belief.

 

[broadgage]

Virgin as was, fought harder than First/GWR.

At one point the 800s where going to be plain white until VirginEC kicked up a fuss.

I doubt that FGW as they were at the time fought at all for buffet. They had been trying to get rid of buffets for years, and the introduction of the new shorter DMUs (oops sorry, that should be flexible train length bi-modes) was an excellent opportunity.
They are not even serious about providing the much downgraded trolley service. Often fails to appear at all, only one trolley for a pair of 5 car units, if that.
Often hiding in first class. Seldom has hot drinks available.