Petrol and diesel prices - how much have you been paying?

[JamesT]

Those are a lot more difficult to implement politically. And in any case the effect on congestion of running one or two extra buses and hour on an urban route is tiny compared with those same people travelling by single occupancy car.

This turns into chicken and egg. In Oxford the bus companies have been struggling and having to put on more buses to be able to keep the frequency up because they're getting stuck in congestion. But my point was that it's the single occupancy cars that are the problem, whether they're EV or ICE. If the effect of bumping up fuel duty is merely to shift people over to EVs then it's not solving the problem.

 

[Starmill]

This turns into chicken and egg. In Oxford the bus companies have been struggling and having to put on more buses to be able to keep the frequency up because they're getting stuck in congestion. But my point was that it's the single occupancy cars that are the problem, whether they're EV or ICE. If the effect of bumping up fuel duty is merely to shift people over to EVs then it's not solving the problem.

Indeed. But realistically a 31p rise in fuel duty or a move towards car parking taxes is incredibly unlikely as it's so difficult for the government to defend. General road pricing makes sense politically as a replacement to fuel duty too but again you have to get over the hump of actually introducing it. So a rise in the 5-10p range and other soft measures are the most likely outcome.

 

[bspahh]

Indeed. But realistically a 31p rise in fuel duty or a move towards car parking taxes is incredibly unlikely as it's so difficult for the government to defend. General road pricing makes sense politically as a replacement to fuel duty too but again you have to get over the hump of actually introducing it. So a rise in the 5-10p range and other soft measures are the most likely outcome.

I would start by linking the fuel duty to some sort of price index. Its bad to have tax rates that are frozen when there is inflation.

If essential workers need to drive because they travel when there is no public transport, we should fix that by paying them a salary, and building infrastructure like houses, so they can afford to pay to get to work for themselves, rather than complicating the tax and benefits system.

 

[Starmill]

I would start by linking the fuel duty to some sort of price index. Its bad to have tax rates that are frozen when there is inflation.

If essential workers need to drive because they travel when there is no public transport, we should fix that by paying them a salary, and building infrastructure like houses, so they can afford to pay to get to work for themselves, rather than complicating the tax and benefits system.

This would make far, far more sense. Sadly I think the thinking on fuel duty is lagging badly on this. Providing a seven day 24h bus service on key urban corridors around hospitals, airports, and other large places of shift work is also a pretty basic thing for a developed economy to do. That's not perfect of course, but it's something approached in Greater London at least, plus maybe one or two other hospitals etc. - why can't it be in all big cities in the country? The costs are not that big and if it allows people to get into work earlier or home from work later it's bringing enormous benefits.

 

[Shrop]

This turns into chicken and egg. In Oxford the bus companies have been struggling and having to put on more buses to be able to keep the frequency up because they're getting stuck in congestion. But my point was that it's the single occupancy cars that are the problem, whether they're EV or ICE. If the effect of bumping up fuel duty is merely to shift people over to EVs then it's not solving the problem.

Bumping up fuel duty SHOULD be thought of a lot more carefully, AND explained carefully by Government. It should never be a means of raising money for the Government to spend wherever it likes, it should be ring-fenced to help people to move around more efficiently, and sold to the public accordingly. Reducing congestion would do wonders for the economy, accident reduction would be a much needed reduction of the burden on the NHS, everyone would welcome a reduction in their car insurance premiums, and reducing pollution has self-evident benefits.

How would increasing fuel duty achieve this? Well if done thoughtfully enough, people would think about their means of travel more, simple as that. A ring-fenced increase in fuel duty would enable the provision of more buses/trains/trams etc, PLUS the subsidising of taxi fares to assist those with less easy access to public transport. This would be of particular benefit to the elderly who still drive - often at great risk to others (as accident statistics will testify) - and causing congestion as they're often (understandably) slow. They could be helped enormously if taxis were more affordable and readily available for them.

Many people say they would use public transport if they could, but they own a car because they can't. Then, when they make trips where they could actually use public transport, they use their car simply because they already have it. And when they do already have it, in their minds their trip suddenly doesn't cost them any depreciation whatsoever, nor wear and tear, nor fuel because it's already in the tank, congestion is just accepted (often by the same people who cite train delays as the very reason they don't use them) and parking charges somehow seem to be just accepted aswell. Even if any costs are considered, well for them it's all worthwhile in order not to have to sit with the hoi polloi on public transport, and that bag which can often be carried fairly easily, suddenly becomes a huge deciding argument for taking the car. I'm generalising, but there is quite a bit of truth in this.

So much of this (not all, but quite a lot) is down to a way of thinking. Not so many years ago huge numbers of people said we would never stop people from smoking, or drinking and driving. Okay, these things still happen, but there has been a big cultural change. NOTE:- I'm not even remotely suggesting that people shouldn't own and drive their own cars, I just think there is scope for people to be encouraged to think more carefully when they do, because there really are many benefit to be had by reducing our car-worshipping mentality a bit.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Getting back to the primary subject of this thread, the local Asda in South Manchester is today charging 131.7p per litre for E10 petrol and 135.7p for diesel. Did see a Morrison's site on Saturday charging under 130p per litre.

 

[bangor-toad]

Fuel continues to be cheaper in Northern Ireland.
As of today(14th Oct) in Belfast:
E10 125.9
Diesel 128.9

That's up from last week when it was 1p cheaper for both.

 

[Shrop]

Getting back to the primary subject of this thread, the local Asda in South Manchester is today charging 131.7p per litre for E10 petrol and 135.7p for diesel. Did see a Morrison's site on Saturday charging under 130p per litre.

Morrisons at Shrewsbury today, 127.7 unleaded, 133.7 diesel