Phone speaker noise on trains - have we given up completely?

[dingdinger]

From my own experience even if someone is told to turn the music down or take feet off seats as soon as the staff member has gone they turn the music back up. Then what? Should they be asked to leave? If they refuse should the train be delayed? Personally I'd rather move to another seat than having the train be delayed but I agree that it is getting more common and education from an earlier age should be encouraged. If they are playing loud music and generally causing a nuisance I really doubt they'll care what a member of staff has to say in that moment.

What surprises me is the amount of people of sit there and not say anything themself or even go tell a member of staff but complain on Twitter. Go and speak to someone!

 

[kristiang85]

I feel that the noisy environment on trains is partly caused by the noisy air-conditioning and other mechanical background noise that seems to be accepted these days.

If people are travelling in a coach that is genuinely almost silent - like a Desiro when the air-conditioning has failed - then they will generally talk to each other in low voices.

If they are in a coach where there is basically a vacuum-cleaner running three feet from their ears (like a Desiro 99.9% of the time) then everything else gets louder - their voices, the likelihood of someone turning their music up.

If we want our trains to be library-like environments (and I certainly wouldn't mind), then they have to be quiet to begin with. Most people in libraries wouldn't be pleased if the cleaning staff turned up during working hours with a small fleet of Henry Hoovers.

On the contrary, when coming late from London I try to get one of the diesels on SWR as they are loud and drown out any funny business going on. I much prefer a loud consistent noise than all the tinny nonsense you would be able to hear on a quiet train.

But I obviously prefer the quieter trains during the day, and go as far to the front as possible as generally the more inconsiderate people are also too lazy to walk 10 carriages up.

 

[BRX]

From my own experience even if someone is told to turn the music down or take feet off seats as soon as the staff member has gone they turn the music back up. Then what? Should they be asked to leave? If they refuse should the train be delayed? Personally I'd rather move to another seat than having the train be delayed but I agree that it is getting more common and education from an earlier age should be encouraged. If they are playing loud music and generally causing a nuisance I really doubt they'll care what a member of staff has to say in that moment.

What surprises me is the amount of people of sit there and not say anything themself or even go tell a member of staff but complain on Twitter. Go and speak to someone!

Whether or not people comply, staff asking them to turn the noise off would at least establish the principle that they shouldn't be doing it.

That would be a significant step forward compared to the current situation where it seems like the problem is entirely ignored by TOCs.

I don't expect it would be possible to stop it altogether. There will always be a small number of passengers who don't care about bothering others - there always have been. But essentially at the moment it seems to be becoming normalised. It's not just a couple of people per train. You now can't escape it by moving carriage. And even a confident and proactive person would have to go round and ask several people to stop it. It's much harder to ask someone to stop doing something when they aren't the only culprit.

 

[ChrisC]

And that dreadful “rap” stuff. Sung by morons for morons.

I think I’m probably a bit too old and out of touch to know which is rap, grime or r&b but it’s the offensive language which bothers me. I can put up with a bit of bad language and swearing but it’s the sexual language and attitude towards women in some of this music which concerns me. So much of this music, that I’ve unfortunately heard around the streets, refers to women as bitches and what the men are sexually going to do to them. I was on a tram in Manchester last summer when a young man, from this culture, was playing this offensive music very loudly and a lady got very upset and challenged him about the content of the music. He quickly became extremely abusive towards her and almost violent. Fortunately it happened at the front, just behind the driver, and the tram was stopped a bit further down the line and the man was removed. Sadly, and I include myself in this as a man in my 60’s, other passengers did very little to support the lady. The problem is these types can get very abusive, and who knows if he was carrying a knife and would be prepared to use it.

 

[satisnek]

And that dreadful “rap” stuff. Sung by morons for morons.

Careful... You'll get a riposte from my young friend in my home county...

Vandalism/ASB getting worse on the railways?

Whatever the merits of the graffiti (be it artistic or in the message) if it is vandalism if it is done without consent. Simple. I like some of the work of Blek Le Rat and Banksy. The UK is not as bad as most of Europe and seems consistent in levels with peaks in holidays. Interestingly I...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[GodAtum]

I don't understand why people have moved away from using headphones? Even a few years ago, no-one would dare play music out aloud without headphones, even if there's leaked sound like a sive.

These days there are some people who probably don't even know what a headphone is

 

[Runningaround]

From my own experience even if someone is told to turn the music down or take feet off seats as soon as the staff member has gone they turn the music back up. Then what? Should they be asked to leave? If they refuse should the train be delayed? Personally I'd rather move to another seat than having the train be delayed but I agree that it is getting more common and education from an earlier age should be encouraged. If they are playing loud music and generally causing a nuisance I really doubt they'll care what a member of staff has to say in that moment.

What surprises me is the amount of people of sit there and not say anything themself or even go tell a member of staff but complain on Twitter. Go and speak to someone!

It's easier to complain and get worked up to show your annoyance anonymously on internet threads later by which time it's to late rather than to do it there and then. If staff are just relying on a few stickers and an automated announcements,( that are so ambiguous no one takes notice anymore) aren't bothering to show up to address the issue then some won't realise they are doing anything wrong other passengers do intervene but get no support of staff so give up in future.
I find smoking on trains has increased. If you have a big enough group who been drinking they know staff won't show so will get away with it. It's almost always left to passengers to deal with other passengers.
I've seen pairs of Security Guards on trains of four carriages who seek out the quietest one which are virtually empty and leave the groups to do what they want in the rest. On one occasion the emergency stop handle was used as a drunk had missed his stop and was off into the night. The Security on it hadn't a clue what had happened and played on their phones and waited for the driver to head down to sort it out.

My irritant is passengers on laptops bashing away loudly on the keys. I'm wondering if they are complaining about the loud music.

 

[gazzaa2]

It's the same as car stereos, the volume always correlates with the crapness of the music. Louder=worse

Because ignorant people have bad taste in music.

I don't understand why people have moved away from using headphones? Even a few years ago, no-one would dare play music out aloud without headphones, even if there's leaked sound like a sive.

These days there are some people who probably don't even know what a headphone is

I'd say it's a consequence of wireless headphones coming in and battery operated.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why is it that the individuals who indulge in such anti-social behaviour always have such appalling taste in music? You never hear Pink Floyd or Tom Petty or Beethoven or Mozart.

Perhaps an idea when others are playing dreadful music is to play one's own music, at full volume, in competition; I would certainly go for Pink Floyd, or maybe something more 'exotic' such as the Mars Volta......

 

[al78]

It's long been the case that one of the attractions of the private car is that you can pretty much completely isolate yourself from other humans and their annoying habits.

This is an illusion. You cannot be isolated from other people and their annoying habits when you are sharing the roads with them. People don't suddenly stop bad habits when they get behind the wheel, and a cage of glass and metal does nothing to shield you from those bad habits.

Top ten bad driving habits - are you guilty?

I don't understand why people have moved away from using headphones? Even a few years ago, no-one would dare play music out aloud without headphones, even if there's leaked sound like a sive.

These days there are some people who probably don't even know what a headphone is

When engaged with a smartphone, the edge of the visible universe shrinks to one meter, so the existance of other people cannot be detected.

It's easier to complain and get worked up to show your annoyance anonymously on internet threads later by which time it's to late rather than to do it there and then.

There is no risk of assault when complaining anonymously on an internet thread.

The bottom line is that unless you are in a position of authority, you cannot dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing, and perpetrators of poor behaviour know this, so all they have to do is say "no, what are you going to do about it?", and you are powerless and probably feel a little silly. As we live in a civilised society and you can't knock someone's front teeth out when they act like an arse (without serious undesirable consequences), this isn't going to change any time soon.

 

[ComUtoR]

I think I’m probably a bit too old and out of touch to know which is rap, grime or r&b but it’s the offensive language which bothers me. I can put up with a bit of bad language and swearing but it’s the sexual language and attitude towards women in some of this music which concerns me. So much of this music, that I’ve unfortunately heard around the streets, refers to women as bitches and what the men are sexually going to do to them

So much of a lot of music is derogatory. Country music is notoriously misogynistic. Metal tends to lean towards homophobia. Plenty of songs about drug use and some songs are even considered racist. Its amazing what people listen too but never really hear the words.

 

[bramling]

This is an illusion. You cannot be isolated from other people and their annoying habits when you are sharing the roads with them. People don't suddenly stop bad habits when they get behind the wheel, and a cage of glass and metal does nothing to shield you from those bad habits.

Top ten bad driving habits - are you guilty?


When engaged with a smartphone, the edge of the visible universe shrinks to one meter, so the existance of other people cannot be detected.


There is no risk of assault when complaining anonymously on an internet thread.

The bottom line is that unless you are in a position of authority, you cannot dictate to anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing, and perpetrators of poor behaviour know this, so all they have to do is say "no, what are you going to do about it?", and you are powerless and probably feel a little silly. As we live in a civilised society and you can't knock someone's front teeth out when they act like an arse (without serious undesirable consequences), this isn't going to change any time soon.

Wise words here, sadly. It does surprise me what people here claim to do. The intent is laudable, but it introduces too many issues. I will certainly deal with miscreants when in a position of authority, but the latter is the point - there’s options available in that situation that aren’t available to a passenger, place of safety available for a start, and various tools available to back things up should the person reply with “what are you going to do?”, which can include having the authority to *instruct* them to leave, enlisting assistance from BTP (which in itself is a lottery, of course), having a train screwed down until they’re off, or whatever.

We all know what happened on the Guildford train a few years ago, an example of when things can go badly wrong.

 

[DavyCrocket]

Wise words here, sadly. It does surprise me what people here claim to do. The intent is laudable, but it introduces too many issues. I will certainly deal with miscreants when in a position of authority, but the latter is the point - there’s options available in that situation that aren’t available to a passenger, place of safety available for a start, and various tools available to back things up should the person reply with “what are you going to do?”, which can include having the authority to *instruct* them to leave, enlisting assistance from BTP (which in itself is a lottery, of course), having a train screwed down until they’re off, or whatever.

We all know what happened on the Guildford train a few years ago, an example of when things can go badly wrong.

Out of interest please, What would you do if they refused?
And then further when control refuse to hold a train?
If they go to or assault you then what? London Underground won’t support you.

And further, when a complaint comes in and you’re spoken at, is it all still worth it?

 

[bramling]

Out of interest please, What would you do if they refused?
And then further when control refuse to hold a train?
If they go to or assault you then what? London Underground won’t support you.

And further, when a complaint comes in and you’re spoken at, is it all still worth it?

This is where situational awareness comes into play, hence trying not to start a battle which one isn’t likely to win. However bottom line is if necessary a train *will* be held, or at the very least met somewhere.

No problem with complaints though, there isn’t really anything to complain about, so any complaint isn’t going to go anywhere; one point I forgot to mention originally is also considering the presence of CCTV. Nowadays many staff have body cams too, though to be honest personally I’m not particularly keen, but equally many staff do say they’re effective.

No easy solutions unfortunately.

 

[route101]

I notice it with groups. They will be talking perhaps between themselves but feel the need to have music on, I guess to create an atmosphere. On the overnight coaches people speaking on calls annoyed me, they weren't loud but it was constant

 

[peteb]

The way they have tackled anti-social behaviour in the past is to play classical music at places where it took place. I guess you could respond to another's annoying tablet/smartphone/device's noise by playing your own choice of sounds just as loudly back, but then you are merely doing what the person annoying you is doing....And I guess most people are afraid of getting assaulted so won't challenge the person playing loud stuff (but when I last challenged someone they were terribly apologetic that they'd forgotten to plug their earphones in)!

 

[43066]

So much of a lot of music is derogatory. Country music is notoriously misogynistic. Metal tends to lean towards homophobia. Plenty of songs about drug use and some songs are even considered racist. Its amazing what people listen too but never really hear the words.

Perhaps they do listen to the words and still enjoy it? I couldn’t care less what people listen to, but I question why anyone’s private listening needs to be played in public?! It’s rude, entitled and extremely selfish behaviour, which is fully deserving of punishment!

It’s a huge bugbear of mine. I was passing in my TOC’s first class earlier today. After I’d sat down I overheard someone having a loud video call, and some other idiot playing music on loud speaker. I donned my noise cancelling headphones and listened to the sound of falling rain all the way back to London. Bliss.

What a shame behaviour from supposedly grown adults has deteriorated to such a point that noise cancelling headphones are necessary!

 

[Runningaround]

The way they have tackled anti-social behaviour in the past is to play classical music at places where it took place. I guess you could respond to another's annoying tablet/smartphone/device's noise by playing your own choice of sounds just as loudly back, but then you are merely doing what the person annoying you is doing....And I guess most people are afraid of getting assaulted so won't challenge the person playing loud stuff (but when I last challenged someone they were terribly apologetic that they'd forgotten to plug their earphones in)!

So you make it worse and show them you annoy someone back if they annoy you?
They also played high pitched sounds that can't be heard by over 25's outside corner shops, hardly fair on the young helper popping down for some milk for his elderly aunt.

 

[bramling]

So you make it worse and show them you annoy someone back if they annoy you?
They also played high pitched sounds that can't be heard by over 25's outside corner shops, hardly fair on the young helper popping down for some milk for his elderly aunt.

Classical music is surprisingly effective in getting rid of some people.

 

[Flying Snail]

It must be awful going through life deathly afraid to ever stand up for yourself in case you get shot, stabbed, beaten or made fun of.

I am not really a big fan of the whole alpha/beta male theory but really is it so bad now that an entire generation of men are so fearful that the bad boy will hit them that they spend every moment in public in a constant state of fear?

I drove buses/coaches for 10 years and couldn't even begin to count how many people I asked or told to turn off devices or quit bellowing into phones, none of those situations ended in violence. I got occasional verbal resistance from them and if anything it was middle age women that were most abusive in their response; I reckon had it come to blows I'd have been well able to take them, but it didn't.

 

[bramling]

It must be awful going through life deathly afraid to ever stand up for yourself in case you get shot, stabbed, beaten or made fun of.

I am not really a big fan of the whole alpha/beta male theory but really is it so bad now that an entire generation of men are so fearful that the bad boy will hit them that they spend every moment in public in a constant state of fear?

I drove buses/coaches for 10 years and couldn't even begin to count how many people I asked or told to turn off devices or quit bellowing into phones, none of those situations ended in violence. I got occasional verbal resistance from them and if anything it was middle age women that were most abusive in their response; I reckon had it come to blows I'd have been well able to take them, but it didn't.

The problem isn’t so much the risk of being hit. Lee Pomeroy clearly felt able to confront someone, and ended up being the victim of a frenzied stabbing. Being an alpha male is not much help if one ends up coming up against some tooled-up nutcase with issues. Hence my comments elsewhere about having access to a place of safety should things turn nasty - on a train that is really only a cab, which isn’t somewhere Joe Public has access. I suppose a toilet might just about fit the bill, but hardly ideal.

One can’t really narrow down bad areas either - Clandon was hardly bandit country.

 

[Drsatan]

The problem isn’t so much the risk of being hit. Lee Pomeroy clearly felt able to confront someone, and ended up being the victim of a frenzied stabbing. Being an alpha male is not much help if one ends up coming up against some tooled-up nutcase with issues. Hence my comments elsewhere about having access to a place of safety should things turn nasty - on a train that is really only a cab, which isn’t somewhere Joe Public has available to them. I suppose a toilet might just about fit the bill, but hardly ideal.

One can’t really narrow down bad areas either - Clandon was hardly bandit country.

It's even more dangerous to confront people over ASB now that carrying knives and other weapons has become increasingly common.

In 2006 AFAIK a man was stabbed to death on the top deck of a bus in London after asking a man to stop throwing chips at his partner. From what I've seen on social media more and more teenagers and young adults are carrying knoves and even machetes.

There's a video on instagram (can't find the link) of armed police arresting a man on a bus in London. The video reveals the man was concealing a foot-long machete in his trackies.

 

[stuu]

It must be awful going through life deathly afraid to ever stand up for yourself in case you get shot, stabbed, beaten or made fun of.

I am not really a big fan of the whole alpha/beta male theory but really is it so bad now that an entire generation of men are so fearful that the bad boy will hit them that they spend every moment in public in a constant state of fear?

I once backed up someone asking some young lads to stop smoking weed on the bus, and on the way off one of them hit me round the face with a chain from behind. Needed stitches... this was in Pinner.

It is the unfortunate reality that there are a lot more tooled up morons than there ever used to be

 

[AndyMike]

From my own experience even if someone is told to turn the music down or take feet off seats as soon as the staff member has gone they turn the music back up. Then what? Should they be asked to leave? If they refuse should the train be delayed? Personally I'd rather move to another seat than having the train be delayed but I agree that it is getting more common and education from an earlier age should be encouraged. If they are playing loud music and generally causing a nuisance I really doubt they'll care what a member of staff has to say in that moment.

What surprises me is the amount of people of sit there and not say anything themself or even go tell a member of staff but complain on Twitter. Go and speak to someone!

Believe me, I have.

 

[weepingwillowb]

Classical music is surprisingly effective in getting rid of some people.

Something by Harrison Birtwistle perhaps?

 

[BRX]

If it's considered too risky for staff to challenge ASB, then surely it's also too risky to challenge people travelling without a valid ticket - which is a regular part of the job. Or is there a significant difference?

In any case, as I previously said, there are several steps that can be taken without leading to any direct confrontation, but aren't. The most obvious one is a request over the PA system, either as part of a regular routine, or made as necessary according to what's going on in any particular train. It wouldn't make everyone stop, but I think many would, and it would establish the principle of what isn't ok. Not really much different from asking people to take bags off seats on busy trains, for example.

 

[bleeder4]

If you can get a train used by business commuters then you're sorted. I plan my itinerary around them whenever I can. I went to London last week as a leisure traveller and when I was planning my return train back to Worcester I deliberately chose the 18:58 from Paddington. Full of business people heading back home to the Oxfordshire countryside. They all get on and set up their laptops in front of them. All I heard all journey was just the gentle tapping of laptop keyboards. It was absolute bliss.

 

[ChrisC]

If it's considered too risky for staff to challenge ASB, then surely it's also too risky to challenge people travelling without a valid ticket - which is a regular part of the job. Or is there a significant difference?

In any case, as I previously said, there are several steps that can be taken without leading to any direct confrontation, but aren't. The most obvious one is a request over the PA system, either as part of a regular routine, or made as necessary according to what's going on in any particular train. It wouldn't make everyone stop, but I think many would, and it would establish the principle of what isn't ok. Not really much different from asking people to take bags off seats on busy trains, for example.

That’s if their music is not being played so loud that they can’t even hear the PA announcement. That actually is another annoying problem with people playing music and even talking loudly on hands free mobile phones. It can often make it almost impossible to hear important announcements over the PA. Just recently I was on a journey where there was some important information about onward connections and I could not hear it because someone near me was talking very loudly on their phone. It would also help if the PA systems were a bit more audible on some trains although there are occasionally instances where it is too loud. You can’t win!

 

[Robertj21a]

At the moment, as in the past, playing music out loud is a cultural norm. If I get any train, at any time of the day, I fully expect there to be music playing out loud.

Really ?

I hope I'm never on your train. Why should I have to put up with music playing out loud, on any train ?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Only just seen this thread, but I feel poised to say it annoys me very much too!

Personally I wouldn't want to be relaying my private phone conversations to the world.