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Photo query

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Arglwydd Golau

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It's been some time since I posted one of my father's old photos....here's one taken in 1936/7 when he was at Oxford, I'm assuming it's on the outskirts of London. Must be easier than a level crossing in the Reading area! Loco is an unidentified GWR 'Bulldog'GEH087 (2).jpg
 
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Cowley

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Is that the big building next to the parcels platform (1a) at Paddington?
There’s a couple of shots of those buildings on rmweb here:
 
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Arglwydd Golau

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I think that you are correct, Cowley...tho' the fire escape on the building was presumably added after Dad took the photo. I don't know paddington at all, but I am assuming then he must have been standing at the end of one of the other platforms that gave a good view of all arrivals and departures. (There is also a pic of a prairie tank on a train at the same location). Was it always a parcels platform?
 

Cowley

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I think that you are correct, Cowley...tho' the fire escape on the building was presumably added after Dad took the photo. I don't know paddington at all, but I am assuming then he must have been standing at the end of one of the other platforms that gave a good view of all arrivals and departures. (There is also a pic of a prairie tank on a train at the same location). Was it always a parcels platform?
I’m not sure of its history myself but that shot across from the end of the platforms used to be a bit of a classic and I instantly thought of it when I saw your dad’s photo.
It looks odd seeing such an old class of locomotive next to it though. What a cracking picture!
 

Clarence Yard

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The Bulldog is arriving on Platform 1. To the right of the box is 1a with the stop blocks just about where the canopy starts
 

Arglwydd Golau

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The Bulldog is arriving on Platform 1. To the right of the box is 1a with the stop blocks just about where the canopy starts

Every time I have looked at this photo I have always assumed that it was departing! I did say I don't know Paddington! I will have to make a mental adjustment now!"
 

John Webb

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This photo (click on it to go to the original larger version on the Geograph website) shows rather better the relationship of 1a to 1:
Paddington Station, exit on Departure side 1953

© Copyright Ben Brooksbank and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.

Additional information on your father's photo: The building behind the loco is the new departure signal box - looks like it is nearing completion; note the marks on all the window panes to remind people that the glass had been fitted! This may place the photo to around 1931/32 as it was brought into use in July 1933.
 
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WesternLancer

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It's been some time since I posted one of my father's old photos....here's one taken in 1936/7 when he was at Oxford, I'm assuming it's on the outskirts of London. Must be easier than a level crossing in the Reading area! Loco is an unidentified GWR 'Bulldog'View attachment 83300
Nice to see this. I reckon I stood in the area just about where the front of the loco is, or perhaps a bit closer to the left, in early 2019 to see and photograph some of the last HST services from Paddington, before taking a lunch time HST and enjoying a superb lunch in Pullman dining on a run to Plymouth!
 

Dr Hoo

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Out of interest when was Paddingtons platform 1a taken out of use?
The track was realigned away from the face in the mid 1990s remodelling but the re-activated Motorail side-loading facility was created with a bit of cantilevering. My car used it a few times up to the end of 2005, ISTR.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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Additional information on your father's photo: The building behind the loco is the new departure signal box - looks like it is nearing completion; note the marks on all the window panes to remind people that the glass had been fitted! This may place the photo to around 1931/32 as it was brought into use in July 1933.

That information really is priceless! It seems that I had made the erroneous assumption that my father would have taken photos on the SR when he was at school in Leatherhead and his GWR photos when he went to Oxford, but that clearly was (probably) not the case! Thinking further there was absolutely no reason why the School Railway club couldn't have arranged a day of half-day trainspotting at a London terminus (there are also a couple of photos at Kings Cross).....this is borne out by the very high number of locos that he saw annotated in his notebooks.
Of course, it doesn't explain why he took two photos at Paddington, one of a humble Bulldog and the other of an even more humble Prairie tank, when there were presumably Kings and Castles available...I'll never know the answer to that.

A further question....was it usual to have a 'departure' signal box? I have never heard that term before in connection with a 'box.
 

John Webb

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That information really is priceless! ......

A further question....was it usual to have a 'departure' signal box? I have never heard that term before in connection with a 'box.
Glad to have been of help. Paddington underwent a major resignalling scheme in the early 1930s when the GWR, assisted by government money to relieve unemployment, installed colour light signalling and modified both the station and the tracks approaching it. There were three new signal boxes, Westbourne Bridge, opened January 1932, Paddington Departure opened July 1933 and Paddington Arrival in August 1933.
Is it possible your father's school club visited Paddington to see the works in progress?

Before the advent of the modern diesel multiple units, such as the HST and later units, the major terminals tended to have 'Departure' and 'Arrival' platforms. This was particularly true in the days of steam when incoming main line locos needed the empty stock to be hauled away to release them to go to water/coaling/turning facilities, and departure trains had the empty stock brought in by small locos before the main line locos backed onto the train. So it was quite common to have arrival and departure boxes to cope with these two distinct streams of traffic.
 

30907

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Of course, it doesn't explain why he took two photos at Paddington, one of a humble Bulldog and the other of an even more humble Prairie tank, when there were presumably Kings and Castles available...I'll never know the answer to that.

A further question....was it usual to have a 'departure' signal box? I have never heard that term before in connection with a 'box.
Maybe Bulldogs were a rarity at Paddington by then? Prairies weren't though!

To add to John Webb's answer, Euston was the other large London terminus that was laid out with separate arrivals and departures sides and matching approach layout.
 

Arglwydd Golau

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I suspect that this is a Webb LNWR 0-6-2T, but I can't see any evidence of this particular number on the BRDatabase site. The location is unknown (to me) but I suspect it's in London. Is that condensing apparatus?GEH266 - Copy.jpg
 

30907

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I suspect that this is a Webb LNWR 0-6-2T, but I can't see any evidence of this particular number on the BRDatabase site. The location is unknown (to me) but I suspect it's in London. Is that condensing apparatus?View attachment 84102
If your hunch about London is right, could the location be one of the bays at Addison Road/Olympia?
 

Clarence Yard

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Funnily enough, that is exactly where I thought it was before I looked at your posting. Where the motorails used to go from, in much later years of course!
 

swt_passenger

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Another vote for Addison Rd/Olympia - vertically above the loco tender, and in the far upper background, is the curve of the end of the main roof. Then vertically above a position about halfway along the first coach, you can see the lower curved roof of the smaller southern hall.
 

WesternLancer

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Another interesting pic to see. Given the emerging agreement about the location, what sort of service might this have been?

Interesting carriages and wagons in shot too.
 

randyrippley

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I suspect that this is a Webb LNWR 0-6-2T, but I can't see any evidence of this particular number on the BRDatabase site. The location is unknown (to me) but I suspect it's in London. Is that condensing apparatus?View attachment 84102
Is what you think is condensing gear actually the vacuum pump for autotrain working?
This page states that some were so fitted

However in Klapper's "London's Lost Railways" there's an undated photo of a condensing LNWR 2-4-2T hauling nine teak four-wheelers on the Outer Circle at Kensington Addison Rd
 
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Arglwydd Golau

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Thanks all! Definitely Addison Road/Olympia (I didn't know that the name was changed, but should have realised!) I have another pic which clearly shows the large building on the skyline (from a different direction)

Another interesting pic to see. Given the emerging agreement about the location, what sort of service might this have been?

Interesting carriages and wagons in shot too.
I've just read a brief description on Kensington Olympia on the Disused Stations website. I suspect that the train was heading for Willesden Junction and possibly beyond...Harrow or Watford?
Yes, the first coach is interesting, can anyone identify it, I wonder?

Is what you think is condensing gear actually the vacuum pump for autotrain working?
Yes, it was a toss up between the two and I think I went for the wrong one! Thinking about it afterwards I couldn't see where and why an LNWR loco would require condensing apparatus, but then you have found that it was possible!

Trying to date the pic once again makes me think that it was a trip from school, there must have been a wide variety of motive power on cross-London workings in the early 1930's.
 

randyrippley

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Just scanned through Klapper's book. From 1872 the LNWR ran a Broad St to Mansion House service. From December 1905 trains switched to electric locos at Earls Court for the section to Mansion House. From Jan 1909 the trains ran Broad St - Earls Court, and were cut to Willesden - Earls Court in March 1912. It looks like the line was electrified in 1914 and services ran until the line was bombed in 1940. The photo is clearly post 1923 though and the train doesn't fit any of those services if its in a bay platform
LSWR, GWR, District also used the line at various times
 
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30907

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It looks like a parcels train to me - and a very quick Google makes me think it could be an LNW or NER* design - but we need an expert and that's not me.
As to date - LMS era, so I think you are right and your father was a tripfather to town from Leatherhead.

*not impossible - parcels vans got everywhere! - but the stock looks quite homogenous so less likely.
 

EbbwJunction1

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Did they used to have circuses at Olympia? If so, could the wagons on the right have been used to transport the animals and equipment?
 

30907

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Did they used to have circuses at Olympia? If so, could the wagons on the right have been used to transport the animals and equipment?
Or are they milk churn wagons? ISTR slatted-sided vehicles were commonly used, and there was a milk depot at Wood Lane in later years. In fact it looks very like a GWR Siphon F from a quick Google!
 

EbbwJunction1

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Or are they milk churn wagons? ISTR slatted-sided vehicles were commonly used, and there was a milk depot at Wood Lane in later years. In fact it looks very like a GWR Siphon F from a quick Google!

I didn't now that ... it may well be a better suggestion than mine!
 

Bevan Price

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According to Bertram Baxter's "British Locomotive Catalogue", the loco details were:
New 9/1884 as LNWR 161
Renumbered 4/1921 as LNWR 3727 ("Duplicate list")
Renumbered 12/1927 as LMSR 7700
Withdrawn 3/1948 (not allocated a BR number.)

Fitted for "push-pull" working 12/1921
(officially described as "motor working"; that explains the small vertical cylinders near the front.)

It looks like a parcels train to me - and a very quick Google makes me think it could be an LNW or NER* design - but we need an expert and that's not me.
As to date - LMS era, so I think you are right and your father was a tripfather to town from Leatherhead.

*not impossible - parcels vans got everywhere! - but the stock looks quite homogenous so less likely.

The coach next to the loco is a LNWR 50 foot full brake. A photo of an identical coach appears in David Jenkinson's "Illustrated History of LNWR Coaches" (Note - some LNWR design coaches came under the "West Coast Joint Stock" pool: LNWR/Caledonian Railway) .
The other coaches do not appear sharply enough on my monitor for identification.
 
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Arglwydd Golau

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According to Bertram Baxter's "British Locomotive Catalogue", the loco details were:
New 9/1884 as LNWR 161
Renumbered 4/1921 as LNWR 3727 ("Duplicate list")
Renumbered 12/1927 as LMSR 7700
Withdrawn 3/1948 (not allocated a BR number.)

Fitted for "push-pull" working 12/1921
(officially described as "motor working"; that explains the small vertical cylinders near the front.)



The coach next to the loco is a LNWR 50 foot full brake. A photo of an identical coach appears in David Jenkinson's "Illustrated History of LNWR Coaches" (Note - some LNWR design coaches came under the "West Coast Joint Stock" pool: LNWR/Caledonian Railway) .
The other coaches do not appear sharply enough on my monitor for identification.

Many thanks for that information!
 
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