Pilkington (St Helens) - Warrington Freight

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Y961 XBU

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Yesterday 22/2/16 I managed to photo the first Freight to pass St Helens Central in some time (From the Pilks Factory) Does anyone know exactly what the score with this is as someone said its part of some sort of trial?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is a photo of 66110 passing St Helens Central Yesterday afternoon

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/25206226085/in/dateposted-public/
 
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furnessvale

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Yesterday 22/2/16 I managed to photo the first Freight to pass St Helens Central in some time (From the Pilks Factory) Does anyone know exactly what the score with this is as someone said its part of some sort of trial?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is a photo of 66110 passing St Helens Central Yesterday afternoon

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/25206226085/in/dateposted-public/

It was mentioned on twitter the other day with a photo captioned "first sand train to St Helens since 1988(I think)". It didn't give any more detail and I haven't seen it anywhere else, nor could I find it on RTT.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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furnessvale

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Yes, I passed it twice yesterday, while it was in Ravenhead sidings.
It spent over 8 hours there, running from Warrington via Bamfurlong.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...16/02/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Unless the loaded train spent nearly a week in Arpley, that RTT must involve a second train.

It was quite a few days ago that the twitter photo showed the loaded train departing an unidentified loading point.

Edit to add: just noticed the RTT shows 600 tonnes load. The train leaving the loading point was 2-3 times that. Maybe it has been staged at Arpley and sent to Ravenhead in sections?
 
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Freightmaster

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Yesterday 22/2/16 I managed to photo the first Freight to pass St Helens Central in some time...
For clarification, the first train ran on Wednesday 10th,
so this was the second.

Does anyone know exactly what the score with this is as someone said its part of some sort of trial?
Correct - it's trial movements of sand from Kings Lynn,
using the same wagons which serve Ellesmere Port.


MARK
 

furnessvale

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For clarification, the first train ran on Wednesday 10th,
so this was the second.


Correct - it's trial movements of sand from Kings Lynn,
using the same wagons which serve Ellesmere Port.


MARK

Excellent news, thank you.
 

notlob.divad

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I have a good idea what it was. It almost certainly was a trial, and it is highly unlikely that it was a sand train. The Ravenhead sidings are not very long, and they have only really been used for intermittent Oil deliveries so staging a longer train at Arpley and bringing it in sections to Ravenhead is quite likely.

Can't say anymore, but I think it will still be a while before any regular service is resumed.
 

Y961 XBU

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It as Sand as when i went past on the Train you could see a Digger loading it up, Does anyone know if its booked to run again?
 

notlob.divad

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It as Sand as when i went past on the Train you could see a Digger loading it up, Does anyone know if its booked to run again?

Fair enough, maybe there will be another trial soon for what I was thinking.
 

furnessvale

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Fair enough, maybe there will be another trial soon for what I was thinking.

Intriguing! You've set my guessing juices flowing.

Given that the other main ingredient for glass is limestone, and me based in the Peak District..................? :D
 

dk1

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After a few trial runs last year, there was what looked like a aggragate train in Johnson's Siding at Eccles Road today. Unsure whether it was loading or unloading as I think both where tested a few months back.
 

furnessvale

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After a few trial runs last year, there was what looked like a aggragate train in Johnson's Siding at Eccles Road today. Unsure whether it was loading or unloading as I think both where tested a few months back.

The trials were limestone from the Peak District so, hopefully, it will become more regular.
 

8A Rail

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I have a good idea what it was. It almost certainly was a trial, and it is highly unlikely that it was a sand train. The Ravenhead sidings are not very long, and they have only really been used for intermittent Oil deliveries so staging a longer train at Arpley and bringing it in sections to Ravenhead is quite likely.

Can't say anymore, but I think it will still be a while before any regular service is resumed.

I think this will assist you to confirm load - https://twitter.com/DBSchenkerRail/status/699264850925641729/photo/1
 

furnessvale

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Yup that is sand alright. Not a fan of having to ferry it to the silos by truck. That's why I was so surprised, no purpose built bulk unloading facilities.

The photo says train departing, although the wagons are MT and half the train is still in the siding! Other reports mention the sand coming from Kings Lynn.

I am fairly sure that photo is not Middleton Towers which has bulk loading facilities so I am not sure what is happening.

Could it be a different loading point in the Kings Lynn area? If so, why?
 

billh

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The photo says train departing, although the wagons are MT and half the train is still in the siding! Other reports mention the sand coming from Kings Lynn.

I am fairly sure that photo is not Middleton Towers which has bulk loading facilities so I am not sure what is happening.

Could it be a different loading point in the Kings Lynn area? If so, why?

I was talking to a DBS person a few weeks ago, he was telling me about this trial.Apparently their biggest concern was controlling the loaded train down to the yard in St Helens , a steep gradient. This might explain a split train . He also said there would be no problem with a class60 on this duty.
 

furnessvale

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I was talking to a DBS person a few weeks ago, he was telling me about this trial.Apparently their biggest concern was controlling the loaded train down to the yard in St Helens , a steep gradient. This might explain a split train . He also said there would be no problem with a class60 on this duty.

Shouldn't really be a problem as long as they keep it under control, after all they send bitumen down to Preston Dock.

Mind you, when men were men they sent rakes of unfitted coal down to the docks!

By the way, are you the billh I know from another interest?
 

notlob.divad

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The photo says train departing, although the wagons are MT and half the train is still in the siding! Other reports mention the sand coming from Kings Lynn.

I am fairly sure that photo is not Middleton Towers which has bulk loading facilities so I am not sure what is happening.

Could it be a different loading point in the Kings Lynn area? If so, why?

No that is definitely the oil sidings at Ravenhead. You can see through to the rugby ball shaped bridge in the background.
 

furnessvale

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No that is definitely the oil sidings at Ravenhead. You can see through to the rugby ball shaped bridge in the background.

Thanks for that. That means the DBS twitter photo is wrongly captioned. It says "Train departing for St Helens" when it is actually at the delivery end.

That clears up the confusion and it is good to see that the reception sidings look to be in reasonable condition.
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Yup that is sand alright. Not a fan of having to ferry it to the silos by truck. That's why I was so surprised, no purpose built bulk unloading facilities.

You obviously know the site better than me, but it looks like the sand is being grabbed over a wall straight into the premises.

If that is the case, grabbing has been proven to be quite efficient for bulk loads, saving the cost of conveyors etc for a couple of trains a week.

Yes, ferrying by lorry is not ideal but if it is all on site, they can be internal users, exempt from all road legislation and quite a bit cheaper to run, even to using red diesel.
 

notlob.divad

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You obviously know the site better than me, but it looks like the sand is being grabbed over a wall straight into the premises.

If that is the case, grabbing has been proven to be quite efficient for bulk loads, saving the cost of conveyors etc for a couple of trains a week.

Yes, ferrying by lorry is not ideal but if it is all on site, they can be internal users, exempt from all road legislation and quite a bit cheaper to run, even to using red diesel.

I know the site incredibly well. If they do put conveyors or anything in I will probably be designing them. ;)

There are two sites, the one they are unloading into is a smaller site. The bigger site is out of shot to the right of the picture. Oil deliveries work well, because there is a pipe over the road so the siding can serve both sites. But for sand to arrive at the bigger site like this is about a 1.5-2.0 mile trip on public roads, followed by the empty run back. It probably does work out cheaper grabbing and driving, doesn't mean I like it.
 

furnessvale

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I know the site incredibly well. If they do put conveyors or anything in I will probably be designing them. ;)

There are two sites, the one they are unloading into is a smaller site. The bigger site is out of shot to the right of the picture. Oil deliveries work well, because there is a pipe over the road so the siding can serve both sites. But for sand to arrive at the bigger site like this is about a 1.5-2.0 mile trip on public roads, followed by the empty run back. It probably does work out cheaper grabbing and driving, doesn't mean I like it.

Nor surprised given that you are the conveyor designer! :D:D:D
 
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