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Places that need a metro system

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Batman

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Wasn't there a serious suggestion of a tram in Coventry onece running on road from the City centre to Richo arena, and then running alongside the railway (possible reduced to single track) up to Bedworth and terminating in Bedworth town centre?
 

VTPreston_Tez

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About Hull: 2 lines would be enough, add buses.
Back on Preston: Wrea Green-Clifton-Lea Road-Savick-Ashton&Haslam-Eldon-Central-Frenchwood for one?
Manchester: Salford Crescent to Heaton Chapel, onto Stockport Underground and Stockport-Manchester line?
 

ValleyLines142

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Rather than just saying Cardiff, give us a demonstration! :p

The City Line is the obvious choice, but it's not busy enough to justify it. And whatever happened to that tram/whatever idea regarding the Bay?

In general Cardiff. We could have stations all over Cardiff and the Vale, and even Newport. Very much like the current bus network, but underground.

The City Line is very busy, I was on the 0804 from Radyr (2C07) on Friday and by the time we'd left Ninian it was standing only. And it's like this every day.
 

Ivo

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I like the idea of Manchester having an Underground route. You could do something like Altrincham to Buy and the Airport to Rochd...

Oh wait. They trammed that idea :roll: (Great verb by the way, is "to tram" :lol:)

The City Line is very busy, I was on the 0804 from Radyr (2C07) on Friday and by the time we'd left Ninian it was standing only. And it's like this every day.

It runs twice an hour with one or at best two Pacers per journey. That is an hourly seating capacity of barely 400. And off-peak that is reduced to barely 200. (And that is assuming it even runs in dual formation at peaks.) It's an ideal choice in terms of where it runs, but the line just isn't busy enough.

There would be far more justification in something like Caerphilly to Penarth - but realistically unless you look at upgrading the 17/18 bus to trams, I'm not sure it would work in Cardiff. The easy option is of course to covnert the entire Valley Lines system in a Metro service - but such a network would be far too large for a city the size of Cardiff. Even the Central line (34 miles) takes less time than that for a full end-to-end run.
 

ValleyLines142

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It runs twice an hour with one or at best two Pacers per journey. That is an hourly seating capacity of barely 400. And off-peak that is reduced to barely 200. (And that is assuming it even runs in dual formation at peaks.) It's an ideal choice in terms of where it runs, but the line just isn't busy enough.

There would be far more justification in something like Caerphilly to Penarth - but realistically unless you look at upgrading the 17/18 bus to trams, I'm not sure it would work in Cardiff. The easy option is of course to covnert the entire Valley Lines system in a Metro service - but such a network would be far too large for a city the size of Cardiff. Even the Central line (34 miles) takes less time than that for a full end-to-end run.

The City Line can only have 2-cars due to short platforms on all stations. That's why trains are so busy. And the only reason it is half-hourly is because of the single-line stretch from Heath Low Level to Coryton. The rest of the route has two-platforms. It's not really so much where it runs, it's how busy it is.

The Caerphilly link might work, although it would be SO expensive, eye-wateringly expensive in fact.

And I don't know what happened to the tram to the Bay either. Currently the platform it was going to use is derelict with weeds like a cannabis factory!
 

MidnightFlyer

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The City Line can only have 2-cars due to short platforms on all stations. That's why trains are so busy. And the only reason it is half-hourly is because of the single-line stretch from Heath Low Level to Coryton. The rest of the route has two-platforms. It's not really so much where it runs, it's how busy it is.

Nothing to do with lack of paths between Queen St and Central is it? You could if need be just run to Central - I'm not sure if p6 / 7 would have the capacity for such, but platform 4 may.
 

ValleyLines142

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Nothing to do with lack of paths between Queen St and Central is it? You could if need be just run to Central - I'm not sure if p6 / 7 would have the capacity for such, but platform 4 may.

That might work. In fact, some evening services (such as the 1904 from Radyr) which only goes as far as Central terminates at platform 4. Actually having said that all Valley Lines services (Penarth/Barry/Radyr) that terminate at Central go to 4.
 

bb21

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So... I spent about half an hour or so knocking up an interurban-style tram loop for Poole and Bournemouth; the shorter southern side roughly follows the railway line and the A35, whereas the northern side runs faster through the industrial areas of Poole and along the A347 into Bournemouth. 15 miles long, 43 stations (admittedly I have placed them a bit arbitrarily, and also I haven't paid much attention to road junction layouts and such), and I've got ideas for a few branches too, one of which would require tramtrains....
» Clicky «

If the name of the game is fantasies then I have a few ideas too. :D

Line 1:
Upton Loop - Hamworthy - Poole High Street - Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - Mount Pleasant - Poole Hospital Rear Entrance - Churchfield Road - Park Gates - Lower Parkstone - Upper Parkstone - Branksome - County Gates - Poole Road - Triangle - Avenue Road - Square - Richmond Hill - Old Christchurch Road - Lansdowne - Bournemouth Interchange - Boscombe - Pokesdown - Southbourne / Tuckton & Christchurch Railway Station - Christchurch High Street (via Christchurch Bypass on Mondays) - Purewell - Mudeford / Somerford Loop

Frequency:
Upton - Purewell via Tuckton and Christchurch Station every 7.5 minutes (every 15 minutes in each direction around the loop)
Poole - Mudeford via Southbourne every 7.5 minutes (every 15 minutes in each direction around the loop / selected journeys are extended to/from Poole Harbour for ferry connections)
Poole - Purewell every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 2:
BIC / The Beach - Bath Road - Lansdowne - Bournemouth Interchange - Boscombe - Pokesdown - Iford Roundabout - Bournemouth Hospital - Castlepoint - Charminster - Wimborne Road - Richmond Hill - Square - BIC / The Beach

Frequency:
Clockwise every 7.5 minutes
Anti-clockwise every 7.5 minutes
Bournemouth - Castlepoint every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 3:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - Mount Pleasant - Poole Hospital Rear Entrance - Parkstone Road - Park Gates - Constitution Hill - Sea View - Newtown - West Howe (- Bearwood - Bear Cross) - Kinson - Northbourne - Wimborne Road - Moordown - Winton Banks - Bournemouth Interchange

Frequency:
Off-Peak
Poole - Bournemouth via West Howe and Kinson (not serving Bearwood or Bear Cross) every 7.5 minutes
West Howe - Bournemouth via Bearwood every 7.5 minutes
Kinson - Bournemouth every 3.75 minutes (combined)
Peak
Poole - Bournemouth journeys are diverted to serve Bearwood and Bear Cross
West Howe - Bournemouth via Bearwood every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 4:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - High Street North - Poole Hospital Front Entrance - Longfleet - Oakdale - Fleetsbridge - Waterloo, then one of the three below:
  • - Gravel Hill - Merley - Wimborne Market - Wimborne Square
  • - Broadstone - Hill View - Corfe Mullen
  • - Broadstone - Lancaster Drive - Hilltop Road - Corfe Mullen

Frequency:
Poole - Wimborne every 15 minutes
Poole - Corfe Mullen via Hill View every 30 minutes
Poole - Corfe Mullen via Lancaster Drive every 30 minutes
Poole - Waterloo every 7.5 minutes (combined)

Frequency over common sections:
Bournemouth - Pokesdown every 1.875 minutes

Frequency over common tracks:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre every 1.875 minutes
Bournemouth Interchange Eastbound every 1.875 minutes
Bourenmouth Interchange Westbound every 1.875 minutes

My scheme does depend on a few idealistic actions though, such as destroying that nasty building on the High Street called WH Smith (so that the tram can make its way to the railway station), and the removal of Boscombe Market from the pedestrianised area.

I also can't be bothered with branches into the rural areas as I suspect there would never be sufficient demand there to warrant light rail operation.

(Crikey that took me seven hours to do so you must have been fast making it in half an hour.)

Linky
 

Eagle

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Crikey that took me seven hours to do so you must have been fast making it in half an hour.

To be fair mine was nowhere near as detailed as yours is :P As you can tell from the way I haven't drawn double tracks and have put very sharp corners and straight across roundabouts and such...

Also yours was sensibly planned, unlike mine.

I notice you've gone for a flat crossing of the SWML, and have sent it over the old lifting bridge... you're clearly a more daring engineer than I am (although not daring enough to send it over the new Twin Sails bridge instead...).




Don't you have papers to write or something? :lol:
 
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LE Greys

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If the name of the game is fantasies then I have a few ideas too. :D

Line 1:
Upton Loop - Hamworthy - Poole High Street - Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - Mount Pleasant - Poole Hospital Rear Entrance - Churchfield Road - Park Gates - Lower Parkstone - Upper Parkstone - Branksome - County Gates - Poole Road - Triangle - Avenue Road - Square - Richmond Hill - Old Christchurch Road - Lansdowne - Bournemouth Interchange - Boscombe - Pokesdown - Southbourne / Tuckton & Christchurch Railway Station - Christchurch High Street (via Christchurch Bypass on Mondays) - Purewell - Mudeford / Somerford Loop

Frequency:
Upton - Purewell via Tuckton and Christchurch Station every 7.5 minutes (every 15 minutes in each direction around the loop)
Poole - Mudeford via Southbourne every 7.5 minutes (every 15 minutes in each direction around the loop / selected journeys are extended to/from Poole Harbour for ferry connections)
Poole - Purewell every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 2:
BIC / The Beach - Bath Road - Lansdowne - Bournemouth Interchange - Boscombe - Pokesdown - Iford Roundabout - Bournemouth Hospital - Castlepoint - Charminster - Wimborne Road - Richmond Hill - Square - BIC / The Beach

Frequency:
Clockwise every 7.5 minutes
Anti-clockwise every 7.5 minutes
Bournemouth - Castlepoint every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 3:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - Mount Pleasant - Poole Hospital Rear Entrance - Parkstone Road - Park Gates - Constitution Hill - Sea View - Newtown - West Howe (- Bearwood - Bear Cross) - Kinson - Northbourne - Wimborne Road - Moordown - Winton Banks - Bournemouth Interchange

Frequency:
Off-Peak
Poole - Bournemouth via West Howe and Kinson (not serving Bearwood or Bear Cross) every 7.5 minutes
West Howe - Bournemouth via Bearwood every 7.5 minutes
Kinson - Bournemouth every 3.75 minutes (combined)
Peak
Poole - Bournemouth journeys are diverted to serve Bearwood and Bear Cross
West Howe - Bournemouth via Bearwood every 3.75 minutes (combined)

Line 4:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre - High Street North - Poole Hospital Front Entrance - Longfleet - Oakdale - Fleetsbridge - Waterloo, then one of the three below:
  • - Gravel Hill - Merley - Wimborne Market - Wimborne Square
  • - Broadstone - Hill View - Corfe Mullen
  • - Broadstone - Lancaster Drive - Hilltop Road - Corfe Mullen

Frequency:
Poole - Wimborne every 15 minutes
Poole - Corfe Mullen via Hill View every 30 minutes
Poole - Corfe Mullen via Lancaster Drive every 30 minutes
Poole - Waterloo every 7.5 minutes (combined)

Frequency over common sections:
Bournemouth - Pokesdown every 1.875 minutes

Frequency over common tracks:
Poole Railway Station - Dolphin Centre every 1.875 minutes
Bournemouth Interchange Eastbound every 1.875 minutes
Bourenmouth Interchange Westbound every 1.875 minutes

My scheme does depend on a few idealistic actions though, such as destroying that nasty building on the High Street called WH Smith (so that the tram can make its way to the railway station), and the removal of Boscombe Market from the pedestrianised area.

I also can't be bothered with branches into the rural areas as I suspect there would never be sufficient demand there to warrant light rail operation.

(Crikey that took me seven hours to do so you must have been fast making it in half an hour.)

Linky

Part of Line 2 would almost have got me from Boscombe to the College. I wouldn't mind the walk through King's Park every morning, but the last bit down Commercial Road from Parkstone Green would be rather awkward. Still, it would be far better than the bus route was.

Apologies if you think I'm nitpicking, it's a very good plan.
 

PaulLothian

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Edinburgh may need one - No, it doesn't.

Despite the assertion early in this thread, a tram/light railway system could work well in Edinburgh, which has (a) a good number of reasonable width main streets and roads (b) a radial pattern that means most of the population lives within walking distance of one of the 'spokes', and (c) a residual network of disused rail lines.

Having said that, I would not see most of the disused lines as significant, as these generally run across the grain of modern travel, and do not connect the areas where most people want to get to.

The 'Sub' still does have a freight role, but it is far from the busiest line in Scotland and partial singling would allow sections to be used as fast light-rail connections between on-road sections of a network.

It does seem to me that connecting the shopping centres (some of which are also bus terminals) and the the Park and Rides around the edge of Edinburgh to the city centre would have benefits.

I have a map somewhere, showing some of these ideas and will post it when I can.
 

Ivo

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I will have to look where i saw it last but someone has done a tube map based on Cardiff

Do you mean this?

I might have to make something like that for Bristol. Given I don't want any copyright trouble though, it would have to remain personal (I don't even have the Paddington font installed on this laptop, although I do on my desktop).

EDIT: Having had another look, I think the Circle line is too far west. How can Queen Street be the easternmost station on the Circle? Having said that though, the westernmost station is only 2km or so anyway...

SECOND EDIT: Bristol wouldn't match that map unless you go way beyond the city for the likes of the Heathrow route, although I note that some of the western extremities of the Cardiff map are also like this. For one thing, the "Northern" line would terminate at the airport, not the "Piccadilly"...

THIRD EDIT: I have Paddington installed now :lol:
 
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ValleyLines142

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Do you mean this?

I might have to make something like that for Bristol. Given I don't want any copyright trouble though, it would have to remain personal (I don't even have the Paddington font installed on this laptop, although I do on my desktop).

OH MY GOD THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL!!! Except I wouldn't have a direct service to Central Station!! :(
 

Class172

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Not exactly a proper metro system, but here is my idea for a Worcester and surrounding areas tram-train system, which is already proposed for possible future development - I've just bulked the idea out with possible lines and new ones.

Basic service pattern as follows:
1tph - Great Malvern - Droitwich Spa
1tph - Droitwich Spa - Worcestershire Parkway
1tph - Worcestershire Parkway - Great Malvern

4tph - Claines - Bath Road
4tph - Hallow - County Hall
4tph - Cathedral - Wainwright Road - County Hall - Cathedral (loop service) - Sixways served on matchdays.
attachment.php

Does no-one have any thoughts on my plan??
 

Class172

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I'll give you one.

Does Worcester really need one?

It's certainly well thought out though...
Well I can safely say the original idea isn't one of my fantasies — it's an aspiration of Worcester(shire) City/County councils, along with Worcestershire Parkway. ;)
 

HSTEd

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Well if all the Cardiff valley lines were electrified and fed into a new Thameslink style "core" section.

How many trains could you get over each Valley line with 24tph in said core?
Especially if the present arrangements continued on top of the new section.
 

TSR :D

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Brum desperately needs it. Replace 11A/C route in full with tram with some adjustments if needed.
 

Ivo

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Do you mean this?

I might have to make something like that for Bristol.

I haven't made a map but all the stations are planned out - including a representation of every LUL station, not just most of them as with the Cardiff map. Getting the Heathrow route in was difficult; I had to cram it all into the Long Ashton area! Otherwise though, once the Circle was done (which had a natural route to follow), it was easy.
 

317666

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Cambridge would be nice. I know it hasn't got a huge population but it sure has a huge congestion problem.

Tell me about it! If you ask me, the guided busway should have been a DLR-type system, with trains burrowing underneath the city centre, as a problem with the busway is that once the buses are off the guideway itself, they just get stuck in traffic like regular buses do!
 

VTPreston_Tez

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How abouts we all club together and make an LU-style (but not rename the stations, actually we do the map) for Cardiff, Bristol, Poole, Brum, Edinburgh and just to be a pain City of Preston?
 

Ivo

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How abouts we all club together and make an LU-style (but not rename the stations, actually we do the map) for Cardiff, Bristol, Poole, Brum, Edinburgh and just to be a pain City of Preston?

So basically you are suggesting that we all work together to produce a circuit-esque map for a series of fictional railways, akin to the real ones first introduced in London and then "copied" elsewhere? I've done that before now. I uploaded a copy of a Liverpool map I made once, but I can't find the thread it was in. (To be fair, it wasn't very good.)

Also, why "Poole" and not "Bournemouth"? When people refer to both as one entity and can only be bothered to say one the town of choice is Bournemouth...
 

VTPreston_Tez

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So basically you are suggesting that we all work together to produce a circuit-esque map for a series of fictional railways, akin to the real ones first introduced in London and then "copied" elsewhere? I've done that before now. I uploaded a copy of a Liverpool map I made once, but I can't find the thread it was in. (To be fair, it wasn't very good.)

In the style of an LU map; I can make straight lines and probably could do turns.

Ivo:976015 said:
Also, why "Poole" and not "Bournemouth"? When people refer to both as one entity and can only be bothered to say one the town of choice is Bournemouth...

How about Boole then? (Pournemouth sounds wrong):D
 
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