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East Croydon bottleneck: could underground platforms be a better solution?

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DynamicSpirit

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/plan-to-remove-croydon-rail-bottleneck.172265
According to the article, the proposal to demolish and rebuild the station is because there isn't enough room where the station is to build the required extra platforms and tracks.

That immediately makes me think, why don't they just build a couple of underground platforms. Expensive, sure, but more expensive and disruptive than demolishing/moving/rebuilding the entire station?
 
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Metal_gee_man

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According to the article, the proposal to demolish and rebuild the station is because there isn't enough room where the station is to build the required extra platforms and tracks.

That immediately makes me think, why don't they just build a couple of underground platforms. Expensive, sure, but more expensive and disruptive than demolishing/moving/rebuilding the entire station?
Sending lines underground would seem a sensible thing to do but the space needed to build the tunnels south of the station just doesn't work the existing rails would be reduced, and the railway would become more congested south of the station because of the tunnels taking more space than running rails.

Ultimately the underground platform idea would eliminate some of the grade separation near Selhurst but those platform couldn't be used on different routes it would either be forced into only LBG use or VIC use its a good idea but would need to be implemented miles south of the station due to space constraints
 

MarkyT

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Sending lines underground would seem a sensible thing to do but the space needed to build the tunnels south of the station just doesn't work the existing rails would be reduced, and the railway would become more congested south of the station because of the tunnels taking more space than running rails.

Ultimately the underground platform idea would eliminate some of the grade separation near Selhurst but those platform couldn't be used on different routes it would either be forced into only LBG use or VIC use its a good idea but would need to be implemented miles south of the station due to space constraints
Yes, it's a narrow constrained throat at the south end, and fire regs etc would be an ongoing headache for underground facilities anyway. The space to widen exists on the surface so it seems to make sense to use it. What they're planning is amazing and the staging strategy ingenious, building the new outer platform first then moving a track over to create a worksite for the next and repeating the process so always keeping at least 5 platforms in operation. It's a real once in a century type of investment like Reading or London Bridge. Hope I'll still be around to see it finished.
 

Peter Sarf

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Wonder what sort of timeframe we'd be looking at? If it goes ahead I'll probably be dead before it's finished.....
I will most likely have retired by the time the disruption starts. Even though i currently work in outer Croydon and er drive.

Of course a dual level station would have been great. One level dedicated to Selhusrt (ie London Victoria direct) and one level to Norwood Junction (ie London Bridge etc). Could have been up to eight platforms each way - not a disadvantage in my book. But, as explained above, there has to be room to the South for all the extra diverging tracks. Currently there are five tracks to somewhere further South than South Croydon station. The little rail yard still exists on the West side there as well. So could obliterate South Croydon station (oops) and start the unravelling there.

Would be nice to go overhead but would have to clear the George Street over-bridge immediately to the South and frequent others South of that. Then there is the St James's Road / Lower Addiscombe Road bridge to the North (at Windmill bridge junction name iirc). That junction would of course become redundant.
 
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Bald Rick

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That immediately makes me think, why don't they just build a couple of underground platforms. Expensive, sure, but more expensive and disruptive than demolishing/moving/rebuilding the entire station?

An underground station would be a lot, lot more expensive. £2bn at least, when you take into account where the approach tracks would have had to surface, how you get people up to the surface (I really don’t know how you’d do that), and that to get to the surface on the north side you’d be after Windmill Bridge and therefore have to have an underground junction and all sorts of complications toeing in with the existing junctions. Easily another couple of billion for all that. And a LOT more local disruption shifting all the spoil and concrete.
 

Rational Plan

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Sending lines underground would seem a sensible thing to do but the space needed to build the tunnels south of the station just doesn't work the existing rails would be reduced, and the railway would become more congested south of the station because of the tunnels taking more space than running rails.

Ultimately the underground platform idea would eliminate some of the grade separation near Selhurst but those platform couldn't be used on different routes it would either be forced into only LBG use or VIC use its a good idea but would need to be implemented miles south of the station due to space constraints
Anything invloving an underground station for 12 car commuter trains will be vastly more expensive than moving the station a 100 metres or so North
 
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