Planning permission for carriage?

[antharro]

Seems to be the most appropriate place to put this...

Can anyone advise on whether planning permission would be required to put a single carriage in a field? The field is in green belt land and within a few hundred metres of an SSSI (site of special scientific interest). I'm guessing the only works required would be to put down a gravel base on which a bit of track and sleepers could be placed.

Thanks!

 

[Barclay]

Almost certainly is the answer. Unless the land in question is previously developed, and has the benefit of a B2 (general industrial) use class. If it hasn't and is in the green belt you've almost no chance.

 

[JonathanH]

There is never harm in contacting the planning authorities first. There is some suggestion online that a railway carriage is classed as a mobile building (eg like a static caravan), particularly if it is to be used as a living space.

Examples online such as this https://modgov.north-norfolk.gov.uk/documents/s4282/Melton Constable PF190854.pdf

MELTON CONSTABLE - PF/19/0854 - Siting of railway carriage (retrospective) and conversion, extension and refurbishment of railway carriage to self-contained holiday accommodation;

If it is just going to be parked in a field for storage, that might appear to be a change of land use as the previous poster notes. It is kind of analogous to the situation in this piece about static caravans.

Do I Need Planning Permission to Put a Static Caravan on My Land? | Caravaner

Do I need planning permission to put a static caravan on my land? It's more complicated than you think. I run through all the issues you need to consider

www.caravaner.co.uk

What is the definition of planning permission?

The official definition of planning permission is defined in Section 55(1) of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. It is the “formal permission that must be obtained from a local authority before development or a change of use of land or buildings”. Therefore, the key point here is the word “development”.

Essentially, planning permission is determining whether you are allowed to do any development work. The outcome can either be granted…possibly with some conditions attached…or refused.

The article goes on to say:

Definition of a caravan

The definition of a caravan in law is defined by the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960, Section 29. It states as follows;

“caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include (a) any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway system, or (b) any tent.

The important thing to derive from this is that a caravan cannot be classed as a building and therefore cannot be developed.

but it would seem difficult to argue that a simple length of track on which a carriage stands is not a "railway system".

 

[Titfield]

How is the waste water etc going to be dealt with? Discharge that reaches a SSSI can have serious consequences. Has a bund been installed?

 

[DarloRich]

Contact your local planning authority and your local Councillor asap. Get their advice and get them on side.

 

[Ken H]

Many farm buildings go up with no planning permission as they are defined as temporary structures. Also putting a farm trailer next to a motorway with advertising on it get away with no permission because its just a parked vehicle. Its a minefield.

 

[antharro]

Thanks, everyone. I'll have a chat with my local planning people and see what they think.

 

[co-tr-paul]

If its on wheels you can basically get away with anything rightly or wrongly
Be aware if mk3. Mould is your enemy...... !

 

[peteb]

It might not require PP at all if set on skates and capable of being dragged to a slightly different location by a tractor every 6 months or so. Many stables that pop up in Green Belt are thus exempt but check with your local planning authority as interpretation of planning law is a minefield.

 

[6Gman]

Somebody round here did pretty much this with a DMU trailer. Didn't last long. Planners were on to him in a shot. And that was outside the Green Belt!

 

[ExRes]

I couldn't be any further from an expert but I wouldn't think that it could possibly be compared to a caravan, to put a carriage on a length of track would surely mean that it was on a permanent structure?

My recent experiences with local planning despots suggest that they would put everything possible in the way, even if half a dozen carriages were already in place within 100 yards. My suggestion would be for you to stand as a local councillor as planning laws don't count then

 

[tspaul26]

Seems to be the most appropriate place to put this...

Can anyone advise on whether planning permission would be required to put a single carriage in a field? The field is in green belt land and within a few hundred metres of an SSSI (site of special scientific interest). I'm guessing the only works required would be to put down a gravel base on which a bit of track and sleepers could be placed.

Thanks!

More information as to the character of the land and the proposed use of the carriage would be required in order to give a full answer, but in general terms:

1. a railway carriage on isolated track would probably constitute a caravan for the purposes of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 if it is proposed to be used for human habitation;
2. a site licence would be required in order to station the caravan on the land (unless an exemption applies - unclear on the facts presented); and
3. a site licence may only be granted if (when it is issued) planning permission for the use of the land to station the caravan has been granted.

The construction of the base, track and sleepers would probably constitute an engineering operation requiring planning permission in its own right.

 

[peteb]

Seems to be the most appropriate place to put this...

Can anyone advise on whether planning permission would be required to put a single carriage in a field? The field is in green belt land and within a few hundred metres of an SSSI (site of special scientific interest). I'm guessing the only works required would be to put down a gravel base on which a bit of track and sleepers could be placed.

Thanks!

Another thought, is the proposed site a trackbed of a former railway line? Might have a bearing on pre-app discussions with the LPA.

 

[Roast Veg]

More information as to the character of the land and the proposed use of the carriage would be required in order to give a full answer, but in general terms:

1. a railway carriage on isolated track would probably constitute a caravan for the purposes of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 if it is proposed to be used for human habitation;
2. a site licence would be required in order to station the caravan on the land (unless an exemption applies - unclear on the facts presented); and
3. a site licence may only be granted if (when it is issued) planning permission for the use of the land to station the caravan has been granted.

The construction of the base, track and sleepers would probably constitute an engineering operation requiring planning permission in its own right.

The base/track/sleepers could be kept small enough to constitute a permitted development, as per decking.

 

[tspaul26]

The base/track/sleepers could be kept small enough to constitute a permitted development, as per decking.

Which permitted development right did you have in mind?

 

[WesternLancer]

My suggestion would be for you to stand as a local councillor as planning laws don't count then

Not the case- Cllr / Chair of Planning Cttee where some of my relatives live. Altered listed building without correct permissions, fined etc and I think and told to re-instate as before.

Barby Dashwood-Morris no longer a Wealden councillor - Uckfield News

Barby Dashwood-Morris, a former Wealden planning committee chairman, who was fined after causing 'irreversible changes' to a Grade 2 listed building is no longer a district councillor.

uckfieldnews.com

"Barby Dashwood-Morris, of Priest House, Church Lane, Hellingly, was fined £75,000 and ordered to pay £40,000 towards costs after appearing before the district judge at Brighton Magistrates’ Court on May 3.

She admitted six charges of causing works to be executed for the alteration of the Priest House, a Grade II listed building, without obtaining consent from the council.
....
The council’s head of planning and environmental services, Kelvin Williams said at the time: “The changes to this important listed building came to light when the owners attempted to sell the property.

“Owners of historic properties should be aware of their responsibilities to the property and future generations. We will take action when necessary to protect the important heritage of our district.”

Barby Dashwood-Morris was chairman of Wealden Council’s planning committee south from 2011 to 2013. She was chairman of the council in the year 2015-16."

 

[341o2]

This has been unearthed in the New Forest - doubt whether it had planning permission https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...arriage-set-sell-10-000-charterhouse-auction/

A VICTORIAN train carriage that has remained in a New Forest field for nearly 100 years could sell for £10,000 at auction.


The carriage, which has been identified as a Great Western Railway First Class carriage dating to approximately 1855, has been in the same ownership for over 100 years.

 

[WesternLancer]

This has been unearthed in the New Forest - doubt whether it had planning permission https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...arriage-set-sell-10-000-charterhouse-auction/

£10k ? Unless that includes the land it's on I would have thought the auctioneer / owner, would be lucky to persuade someone to take it away fro free. Surely it's a liability to anyone who bought it, not an asset? Mind you not that it would not be a good thing to go to a relevant GWR preservation base if they were able to take it on.

I suspect the pre 1947 Planning laws gave quite a bit more leeway on such 'structures'