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Platform 15 and 16 project at Manchester Piccadilly.

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B&I

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So you really believe Huyton and St Helens are more deserving of direct services to Manchester Airport than are Leeds, York, Newcastle and Middlesbrough?!


I would suspect that the number of journeys made per head of population (and perhaps in absolute terms) to Manchester Airport from St Helens or Huyton is larger than the number made from any of those other cities.
 
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Mordac

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You have to sometimes, but hey it could be worse. We could be arguing about the colour of a seat cover or handrail.... ;)




To be fair direct rail service outwith Manchester are still very much in their infancy, but are a growing market so show that demand is there. The thinking behind them being part of a bigger strategy is that as MIA grows it's international market, it will make connectivity to all the major towns & cities attractive enough to encourage business beyond the capital. Currently getting from the UK's major hub at Heathrow anywhere other than the capital is difficult by rail, and still very limited by air. My argument, as indeed many others is, that London could not have grown, particularly in the financial sector without the international connectivity it enjoys. So as Manchester Airport is the biggest airport outside of the Home Counties, by improving both the journey options to and from it, and improving connectivity there is a reasonable chance that this will help bolster local economies. Manchester is already enjoying some of these fruits, but the plan is not simply to put all eggs into a single basket as with London, but to try and spread it out across the region. Otherwise all will descend into Manchester every day, and heap on even more misery for it's commuters.

Now of course that's not to say it is a guarantee of sucess, indeed far from it. But it is part of a wider strategy to get the North of England on the map as it were. And let's face it, we are talking about a couple of trains an hour from Yorkshire & the North East, and from Merseyside & the North West. It really shouldn't be so difficult to enable with a bit of joined-up thinking. As for the locals, well I totally agree that they need to feel the benefits of investment, starting with longer trains (and the platforms to accommodate them) to get the capacity up to and beyond current demand. Simply declaring that Manchester routes are for Manchester people only won't solve the problem, and will probably create many more of their own, such as Ministers becoming reticent to rubber stamp improvement projects because they perceive that they will only benefit passengers for a few hours a day.
How would growing Miami Airport's international market attract businesses to the North of England? ;)



Manchester Airport is MAN. I believe this has been the source of some tagged baggage ending up in Miami in the past.
 

TheGarner

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How would growing Miami Airport's international market attract businesses to the North of England? ;)



Manchester Airport is MAN. I believe this has been the source of some tagged baggage ending up in Miami in the past.

I'm not sure how because MIA is the code that Miami International Airport would use for baggage and MAN would be used for Manchester.
 

Mordac

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I'm not sure how because MIA is the code that Miami International Airport would use for baggage and MAN would be used for Manchester.
As the post I was quoting shows, quite a few people think MIA is code for Manchester International Airport instead.
 

B&I

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For journeys to London, yes. But for New York or Los Angeles? 1h20 Leeds to Manchester Airport direct, versus nearly 3h30 Leeds to Heathrow or Gatwick, with at least one change.


Do you think that Channel 4 will be generating a lot of transatlantic air travel ?
 

TheGarner

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As the post I was quoting shows, quite a few people think MIA is code for Manchester International Airport instead.

Ah yes my bad. Maybe people should stop calling it Manchester International Airport as I don't even think that's its official name :P
 

notlob.divad

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Indeed. Channel 4 has just announced that it is relocating to Leeds, not to Salford or Trafford Park adjacent to the BBC and ITV studios. Considering the cosmopolitan nature of the media industry, I am sure that the transport connectivity between Leeds and Manchester Airport will have been a factor in the decision. Liverpool, with its even better links to the airport, is likewise in a strong position to attract inward investment in competition with more costly sites in Greater Manchester.
But Liverpool with its supposed better transport links to Manchester was dropped from Channel 4s options at an early stage, due to: lack of transport connectivity.

So the very premise of your argument is false.
 

Greybeard33

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How frequently are the 200 people going to be travelling to New York or Los Angeles?
Quite often, I imagine, considering that Channel 4 has a small HQ staff because it commissions or buys in most of its programmes, many from US-based production companies (whose staff will be travelling the other way).
But Liverpool with its supposed better transport links to Manchester was dropped from Channel 4s options at an early stage, due to: lack of transport connectivity.

So the very premise of your argument is false.
The reason stated at the time for the rejection of Liverpool's bid was that Liverpool was not planned to get a high speed link to HS2, not any deficiency in its current transport connectivity. This only confirms that rail connectivity, both present and future, will have been considered in the final choice between Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham.
 

B&I

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Quite often, I imagine, considering that Channel 4 has a small HQ staff because it commissions or buys in most of its programmes, many from US-based production companies (whose staff will be travelling the other way).

The reason stated at the time for the rejection of Liverpool's bid was that Liverpool was not planned to get a high speed link to HS2, not any deficiency in its current transport connectivity. This only confirms that rail connectivity, both present and future, will have been considered in the final choice between Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham.


Ah, but not just any old railway connectivity - HS2 connectivity. Does this not suggest that, in Channel 4's case at least, getting to and from London is a lot.more important than getting to and from Ringway ?
 

Altfish

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Ah, but not just any old railway connectivity - HS2 connectivity. Does this not suggest that, in Channel 4's case at least, getting to and from London is a lot.more important than getting to and from Ringway ?
No, it suggests that Leeds CC (Like Salford did with the BBC) made Channel 4 an offer it couldn't refuse.
 

Bantamzen

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No, it suggests that Leeds CC (Like Salford did with the BBC) made Channel 4 an offer it couldn't refuse.

Or that property might be slightly cheaper in Leeds, whilst still being well connected to London, Manchester, New York, a small fishing village on an Icelandic peninsula.... Or indeed any combination of the above.

But at least a few more jobs are bring prized away from the capital to t'Grim North, and should any of them wish to travel to the US there is a handy direct connection from Leeds station to Manchester Airport that doesn't involve half a dozen changes*, a small Metrolink shuttle bus, long walks across the frozen Mancuninian Tundra, or indeed any fishing vessel from small Icelandic Villages...

(*Possible exaggeration)
 

Chester1

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Ah, but not just any old railway connectivity - HS2 connectivity. Does this not suggest that, in Channel 4's case at least, getting to and from London is a lot.more important than getting to and from Ringway ?

Why do you refer to Manchester Airport as Ringway? It has not been called that for decades. It makes you sound stuck in the past or deliberately trying to understate its importance out of personal dislike. It is the only airport in the UK with a large number of long haul flights outside of the South East. I agree it has disportionate influence over rail services in the north but lets not pretend its not the most important airport outside of the South East. It is like refering to Liverpool Airport as Speke! Its Liverpool or maybe its official name of John Lennon.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Probably people of a similar age to those who refer to Manchester Airport as Ringway. My Dad certainly calls it Speke Airport and always did, he's 69.
There's plenty of folk (of a certain vintage) round West Yorkshire who still refer to Leeds Bradford Airport as Yeadon, or even "Yeadon Aerodrome"... and I don't think they're all being facetious!
 

fowler9

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One thing I find strange is that despite the seeming importance of Yorkshire and the whole North East coast of the UK really neading a direct service to Manchester Airport the first service to go on Northerns strike days is Liverpools direct services to Manchester Airport leaving pretty much everyone in Manchesters biggest nearest neighbour having to change at least once to get to Manchester Airport of a Saturday.
 

_toommm_

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It's amazing how many people board the Northern services that terminate on 13. Even when the destination blind says Man Pic and the PIS tells people the train terminates here, they still board it, thinking it's the service to Norwich, or the service to the Airport.

People are almost agog when I tell them it's the wrong train company. Amazes me how some people live their day to day lives and don't end up at the wrong end of the country.
 

edwin_m

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Or that property might be slightly cheaper in Leeds, whilst still being well connected to London, Manchester, New York, a small fishing village on an Icelandic peninsula.... Or indeed any combination of the above.

But at least a few more jobs are bring prized away from the capital to t'Grim North, and should any of them wish to travel to the US there is a handy direct connection from Leeds station to Manchester Airport that doesn't involve half a dozen changes*, a small Metrolink shuttle bus, long walks across the frozen Mancuninian Tundra, or indeed any fishing vessel from small Icelandic Villages...

(*Possible exaggeration)
Manchester also has better connections than Leeds Bradford does to Keflavik, which is in fact a small fishing village on an Icelandic peninsula...
 

Killingworth

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There's plenty of folk (of a certain vintage) round West Yorkshire who still refer to Leeds Bradford Airport as Yeadon, or even "Yeadon Aerodrome"... and I don't think they're all being facetious!

Before this digression is ruled totally out of order, Woolsington for Newcastle, RAF Finningley for Doncaster/Sheffield Robin Hood, RAF Middleton St George for Teesside International or Durham Tees, RAF Kirmington for Humberside and finally RAF Crosby-on-Eden for Carlisle Lake District.

Pity the RAF didn't have old railway stations or platforms we could use for trains.

However, the need for more resilience may have been illustrated today when a passenger was reportedly taken ill at Deansgate causing following trains to be held up with knock-on effects across the network.
 
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B&I

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One thing I find strange is that despite the seeming importance of Yorkshire and the whole North East coast of the UK really neading a direct service to Manchester Airport the first service to go on Northerns strike days is Liverpools direct services to Manchester Airport leaving pretty much everyone in Manchesters biggest nearest neighbour having to change at least once to get to Manchester Airport of a Saturday.


You might consider the necessity of Liverpool having to rely on Northern to get it to MancAirport an indicator of where it comes in the pecking order.
 

B&I

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Why do you refer to Manchester Airport as Ringway? It has not been called that for decades. It makes you sound stuck in the past or deliberately trying to understate its importance out of personal dislike. It is the only airport in the UK with a large number of long haul flights outside of the South East. I agree it has disportionate influence over rail services in the north but lets not pretend its not the most important airport outside of the South East. It is like refering to Liverpool Airport as Speke! Its Liverpool or maybe its official name of John Lennon.


A. Because I am stuck in the past - you should see my suits
B. Because it takes less time to type
C. Because it is a good litmus test to distinguish between people who are prepared to approach these issues with an open mind, and those who are so convinced about the paramount importance of Ringway to rail development across around about half of Britain that they consider anything less than a recitation of its full official title on every mention to be some unimaginable slight.

Personally I still refer to 'Liverpool John Lennon' as Speke because I'm not the sort of wassock who pretends that their nearest regional airport is worthy of the same reverence as Medina.

As for personal preference, on the one occasion I took a transatlantic flight from Ringway, I thought that bit of it was marvellous. Unfortunately, because I am as tight as a gnat's chuff, most of my flights from it have been from that scale model of Sangatte where the lo-co airlines fly from. The sooner that is flattened, the better
 
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B&I

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No, it suggests that Leeds CC (Like Salford did with the BBC) made Channel 4 an offer it couldn't refuse.


So, rail connectivity has nothing to do with it then ? Rather as I suspected in Channel 4's case (albeit rail connectivity would be important to many other businesses)
 

Chester1

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A. Because I am stuck in the past - you should see my suits
B. Because it takes less time to type
C. Because it is a good litmus test to distinguish between people who are prepared to approach these issues with an open mind, and those who are so convinced about the paramount importance of Ringway to rail development across around about half of Britain that they consider anything less than a recitation of its full official title on every mention to be some unimaginable slight.

Personally I still refer to 'Liverpool John Lennon' as Speke because I'm not the sort of wassock who pretends that their nearest regional airport is worthy of the same reverence as Medina.

As for personal preference, on the one occasion I took a transatlantic flight from Ringway, I thought that bit of it was marvellous. Unfortunately, because I am as tight as a gnat's chuff, most of my flights from it have been from that scale model of Sangatte where the lo-co airlines fly from. The sooner that is flattened, the better

Its not reverence to call somewhere by its name! Especially when its the name of the city not some tiny village. Its also not helpful to refer to places using names that members may not have heard. Until HTAFCs post I not know Leeds-Bradford Airport was once called Yeadon for instance.
 

B&I

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Its not reverence to call somewhere by its name! Especially when its the name of the city not some tiny village. Its also not helpful to refer to places using names that members may not have heard. Until HTAFCs post I not know Leeds-Bradford Airport was once called Yeadon for instance.


So how would you, in the context of discussing them on a web forum, refer to a. the airport.serbing Liverpool b. the smaller of Belfast's 2 airports ?
 
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