Please Get Rid of the Safety Screen !

[yorksrob]

Posters do not work in the main because the general travelling public are a bit thick. Only the other week my control room was overrun with calls from the helpline asking where their trains were even though we had posters up prominently at the entrance and the platforms informing passengers.

Are you sure that's not just because the information wasn't where people expected it to be?

Speaking as one of those railway enthusiasts with our silly opinions, I found myself wandering through Leeds City Station today, and as you would expect, there were several rows of information screens.

The first one on the Wellington Concourse included four boards, two showing a list of departures, one showing a list of arrivals and the other showing the safety information (I use the word "safety" in the loosest possible way obviously) alternating between the "train doors close a minute before departure" and the "unattended items will be exploded" messages.

These are the only screens on the Wellington concourse, so if everything you and other posters on here are saying is correct, the Wellington concourse must be either:

a) an accident/insurance blackspot responsible for putting train fares up by an as yet unproven percentage.

b) some sort of unexplained twilight zone where neither the laws of the land pertaining to insurance claims apply, nor the normal laws of human activity which cause people to fall over when running for trains or leave unattended packages around the place.

The alternative, of course, is that it is perfectly possible to display the "safety" information alongside the departure information and satisfy all health and safety requirements.

Here's an idea - why not have an encased poster either side of all platform departure boards. One could have the doors closing sign and the other could have the unattended packages notice. That way you can display the "safety" information to the satisfaction of the judiciary whilst the rest of us can actually see where the train is going

 

[table38]

yorksrob I'll need guys like you in my new role in charge of H&S. Are you available (and cheap?)

 

[yorksrob]

yorksrob I'll need guys like you in my new role in charge of H&S. Are you available (and cheap?)

I'm always available but never cheap

 

[EM2]

...the other showing the safety information (I use the word "safety" in the loosest possible way obviously) alternating between the "train doors close a minute before departure" and the "unattended items will be exploded" messages.

These are the only screens on the Wellington concourse, so if everything you and other posters on here are saying is correct, the Wellington concourse must be either:

a) an accident/insurance blackspot responsible for putting train fares up by an as yet unproven percentage.

b) some sort of unexplained twilight zone where neither the laws of the land pertaining to insurance claims apply, nor the normal laws of human activity which cause people to fall over when running for trains or leave unattended packages around the place...

So what information was missing? If it wasn't raining, then there's no need for an 'inclement weather' message. I assume there was a normal service running, so there would be no need for a disruption message. It's a weekday, so I doubt there's engineering work.

 

[yorksrob]

So what information was missing? If it wasn't raining, then there's no need for an 'inclement weather' message. I assume there was a normal service running, so there would be no need for a disruption message. It's a weekday, so I doubt there's engineering work.

Well, I don't mind information about disruption or engineering works so much. That's potentially relevant to my journey, and let's face it, it's not in the way all the time.

As for wet weather, well, they can wheel out one of those notice boards and place it at the bottom of the stairs. Put a security camera opposite where it would normally stand and that's the claims sorted.

 

[Chapeltom]

Safety information is wayyyy over the top in this country. When I want to read a departure board, I don't want to wait 2-3 minutes because of a screen showing messages I see everywhere. People unfortunately can't be trusted to look after themselves, such is the culture we live in and must be constantly reminded about slippery surfaces when its raining, not to cycle through the station. The automated announcements at stations are as bad as the screens and at Manchester Picc I find them absolutely irritating as a regular passenger.

 

[Clip]

The first one on the Wellington Concourse included four boards, two showing a list of departures, one showing a list of arrivals and the other showing the safety information (I use the word "safety" in the loosest possible way obviously) alternating between the "train doors close a minute before departure" and the "unattended items will be exploded" messages.

Easy enough to do when you are at a large station and have the space for 4 information screens,not so easy when you just have one on the platform which still needs to convey the same information hence the reason why they have different pages.

Here's an idea - why not have an encased poster either side of all platform departure boards. One could have the doors closing sign and the other could have the unattended packages notice. That way you can display the "safety" information to the satisfaction of the judiciary whilst the rest of us can actually see where the train is going

Can still have posters there and why not, chances of people looking at them rather then the information screens is very low. Of course now you will come up with a solution for those stations that have 2 platforms in the country side which probably already have information posters up as you enter the station yet people still don't bother to read.

So to stop my control getting asked silly questions about information that we already provide via posters at stations what better way would you like to come up with in regards to providing safety information?

 

[yorksrob]

Easy enough to do when you are at a large station and have the space for 4 information screens,not so easy when you just have one on the platform which still needs to convey the same information hence the reason why they have different pages.

Can still have posters there and why not, chances of people looking at them rather then the information screens is very low. Of course now you will come up with a solution for those stations that have 2 platforms in the country side which probably already have information posters up as you enter the station yet people still don't bother to read.

So to stop my control getting asked silly questions about information that we already provide via posters at stations what better way would you like to come up with in regards to providing safety information?

The platforms at Leeds only have one screen for each section (a, b, c and d). However, because they're high enough to walk under, you could easily have a poster either side.

 

[Clip]

The platforms at Leeds only have one screen for each section (a, b, c and d). However, because they're high enough to walk under, you could easily have a poster either side.

Leeds is one station that YOU use. Could you now please give information as to how you would manage to convey the information to other people who use other stations around the whole network when its known by people who work in the industry that posters do not work.

Thanks.

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, does your control get a lot of people asking how long before departure the doors will close ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Leeds is one station that YOU use. Could you now please give information as to how you would manage to convey the information to other people who use other stations around the whole network when its known by people who work in the industry that posters do not work.

Thanks.

Are you saying that Leeds is the only station where information displays can be high enough for people to walk under ?

 

[Clip]

Out of interest, does your control get a lot of people asking how long before departure the doors will close ?

No, because we convey this information on the Customer Information Screens that we provide to assist you with your journey.


Anything else before you answer my question posed to yourself?

 

[D1009]

Easy enough to do when you are at a large station and have the space for 4 information screens,not so easy when you just have one on the platform which still needs to convey the same information hence the reason why they have different pages.



Can still have posters there and why not, chances of people looking at them rather then the information screens is very low. Of course now you will come up with a solution for those stations that have 2 platforms in the country side which probably already have information posters up as you enter the station yet people still don't bother to read.

So to stop my control getting asked silly questions about information that we already provide via posters at stations what better way would you like to come up with in regards to providing safety information?

In the event of someone making a claim against the railway, does it make any difference whether the safety information is displayed on a screen or a poster ? If it is so vital that the safety information has to be displayed in a certain way then this should be done in such a way that it doesn't inconvenience the customers who need information about their trains. If that means more screens then so be it, because if the issue is as important as you are making out, it will be money well spent.

Or are you saying that it's only necessary to stop your control getting asked silly questions, and by inference asking you silly questions ?

 

[Clip]

Out of interest, does your control get a lot of people asking how long before departure the doors will close ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Are you saying that Leeds is the only station where information displays can be high enough for people to walk under ?

no But people will always look on the CIS screens regardless. They dont with posters.

Anything else?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In the event of someone making a claim against the railway, does it make any difference whether the safety information is displayed on a screen or a poster ? If it is so vital that the safety information has to be displayed in a certain way then this should be done in such a way that it doesn't inconvenience the customers who need information about their trains. If that means more screens then so be it, because if the issue is as important as you are making out, it will be money well spent.

Or are you saying that it's only necessary to stop your control getting asked silly questions, and by inference asking you silly questions ?

Nope, but it is found that given people pay attention to the information screens(the clue to what they do is in the title you have alluded to yourself - Information) then this has been found to be the best way to convey safety information to our passengers.

Do you know of a better way then? Please do tell so we can take it on board and put in practice. As much as you want to pillory the rail industry for how we go about things we are always happy enough to take on board your ideas and try them out. But you have already done this haven't you.

 

[EM2]

yorksrob - so there's no issue at Leeds then, because all the information you need is there, on the screens?

 

[yorksrob]

no But people will always look on the CIS screens regardless. They dont with posters.

Anything else?

In that case, if they are looking towards the information screens, they will see the information displayed alongside them.

I can't promise that they'll take the information in - but then again I don't tend to take in the stuff flashed up time after time when I'm waiting to find out where my trains going. I suspect others are the same.

 

[Clip]

In that case, if they are looking towards the information screens, they will see the information displayed alongside them.

I can't promise that they'll take the information in - but then again I don't tend to take in the stuff flashed up time after time when I'm waiting to find out where my trains going. I suspect others are the same.

So we need poster boards in the air now at Leeds where the CIS screens are? Health and safety nightmare that is. We'll need an extra poster board to mention that.

Are you deliberately evading my questions to you?

 

[yorksrob]

yorksrob - so there's no issue at Leeds then, because all the information you need is there, on the screens?

There's no issue on the concourse - because the departure information is alongside the safety information. This is not the case at the platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So we need poster boards in the air now at Leeds where the CIS screens are? Health and safety nightmare that is. We'll need an extra poster board to mention that.

Are you deliberately evading my questions to you?

Really - so poster boards above the platforms are a potential health and safety nightmare but the screens which are already above the platforms are not !

Apologies for the soundbite, but that really is health and safety gone mad

 

[Clip]

There's no issue on the concourse - because the departure information is alongside the safety information. This is not the case at the platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Really - so poster boards above the platforms are a potential health and safety nightmare but the screens which are already above the platforms are not !

Apologies for the soundbite, but that really is health and safety gone mad

No but your just increasing any potential risk for no reason whatsoever apart from to satisfy your own pathetic argument.

And will you please answer my questions as to how you will alleviate this at other stations not just a Network Rail Major station please. Your silence is deafening.

 

[yorksrob]

Question 1

“Could you now please give information as to how you would manage to convey the information to other people who use other stations around the whole network when its known by people who work in the industry that posters do not work.”

Answered:

“The platforms at Leeds only have one screen for each section (a, b, c and d). However, because they're high enough to walk under, you could easily have a poster either side”

i.e. the platforms at Leeds are not uniquely spacious or endowed with screens, therefore there is no reason why this couldn’t be adopted elsewhere.

Question 2

“Nope, but it is found that given people pay attention to the information screens(the clue to what they do is in the title you have alluded to yourself - Information) then this has been found to be the best way to convey safety information to our passengers.”

Answered:

“I can't promise that they'll take the information in - but then again I don't tend to take in the stuff flashed up time after time when I'm waiting to find out where my trains going. I suspect others are the same”

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In the event of someone making a claim against the railway, does it make any difference whether the safety information is displayed on a screen or a poster ? If it is so vital that the safety information has to be displayed in a certain way then this should be done in such a way that it doesn't inconvenience the customers who need information about their trains. . . . . .

I think you really should be able to answer this for yourself if you think about it from the correct persepective!
Imagine you are in a group of junior or trainee solicitors preparing the Arguments for the hypothetical Claim you refer to. They're looking for lines of argument that show the Company could have done better. This is just a chat in an office, long before it reaches a Barrister not to mention a Court. Can any of them think of any ways in which the Company could have prevented, avoided or minimalised the risk of the alledged incident? Well they all come up with a few ideas, some of them reasonable, some utterly impractical, and some are good ideas but simply hadn't been implemented (whether through cost, lack of foresight or other factor maybe doesn't matter).
The best strategies for minimising the risk that hadn't been adopted will be put forward to the Barrister, irrespective of its possible cost. If the Barrister can't persuade the Court that their idea for making the railways safer would have prevented the loss, then (s)he'll move on to the next idea until they find one which the opposition, eventually, can't deny might have prevented the loss (just might).
Its got nothing to do with displaying on a screen or a poster, its everything to do with closing all the possible arguments for a claim.

I've said it often enough on here before - its immaterial if the claimant was drunk, fooling-around, possibly even not having a ticket or any number of other serious failings. The point in a Claim will be whether ther was something the Company could have done to protect the claimant from harm which they hadn't done.

 

[yorksrob]

No but your just increasing any potential risk for no reason whatsoever apart from to satisfy your own pathetic argument.

Exactly what is this risk you speak of, with the boards being above peoples heads ?

 

[Clip]

Question 1

“Could you now please give information as to how you would manage to convey the information to other people who use other stations around the whole network when its known by people who work in the industry that posters do not work.”

Answered:

“The platforms at Leeds only have one screen for each section (a, b, c and d). However, because they're high enough to walk under, you could easily have a poster either side”

i.e. the platforms at Leeds are not uniquely spacious or endowed with screens, therefore there is no reason why this couldn’t be adopted elsewhere.

Question 2

“Nope, but it is found that given people pay attention to the information screens(the clue to what they do is in the title you have alluded to yourself - Information) then this has been found to be the best way to convey safety information to our passengers.”

Answered:

“I can't promise that they'll take the information in - but then again I don't tend to take in the stuff flashed up time after time when I'm waiting to find out where my trains going. I suspect others are the same”

so at stations that only have one screen what exactly do you propose? More screens? that'll cost are you prepared to pay for such things?

Information screens are there for that purpose. To provide information both your train running information and your safety information. Whether or not you take any of it in is neither here nor there. As Dave has alluded to we have to show that we are providing the information in a place that people will at least look at - the information screens.As long as we can show we are doing our best to provide safety information then we are mitigating our risks and liabilities to be sued by you, joe public.

Posters are futile yet we still provide these also as an extra measure to let you know what is what. Whether or not you take in the information from the posters or the information screens then we have done al we can to let you know of any dangers or laws that may be in place.

 

[yorksrob]

Do you know of a better way then? Please do tell so we can take it on board and put in practice. As much as you want to pillory the rail industry for how we go about things we are always happy enough to take on board your ideas and try them out. But you have already done this haven't you.

This really is just silly. Most industries don't even have enthusiasts who extol to their friends, families and colleagues just why they should use that industry and how convenient it is, and that help them to buy a ticket where they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to use it.

Anyone who's read my posts can see that I am not on this forum out of a perverse need to "pillory" the industry at every opportunity. Yet because I don't automatically tug my forelock and agree with everything everyone who's ever worn a railway uniform has to say I've supposedly got it in for the railway.

 

[Clip]

This really is just silly. Most industries don't even have enthusiasts who extol to their friends, families and colleagues just why they should use that industry and how convenient it is, and that help them to buy a ticket where they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to use it.

Anyone who's read my posts can see that I am not on this forum out of a perverse need to "pillory" the industry at every opportunity. Yet because I don't automatically tug my forelock and agree with everything everyone who's ever worn a railway uniform has to say I've supposedly got it in for the railway.

So basically you cant then?

Its these sorts of threads that really annoy me and force me to defend my industry in such a way that i have to pose such questions. Being an enthusiast is one thing but without actually understanding the day to day stuff and making threads like these really angers me somewhat as enthusiasts should ideally understand the pressures and constraints that we are under .

Obviously not.

 

[yorksrob]

so at stations that only have one screen what exactly do you propose? More screens? that'll cost are you prepared to pay for such things?

Information screens are there for that purpose. To provide information both your train running information and your safety information. Whether or not you take any of it in is neither here nor there. As Dave has alluded to we have to show that we are providing the information in a place that people will at least look at - the information screens.As long as we can show we are doing our best to provide safety information then we are mitigating our risks and liabilities to be sued by you, joe public.

Posters are futile yet we still provide these also as an extra measure to let you know what is what. Whether or not you take in the information from the posters or the information screens then we have done al we can to let you know of any dangers or laws that may be in place.

People won't look at posters on their own, but they will look in the direction of safety screens. If the posters are alongside the screens, they will see them when they look for information. It will be up to them whether they want to take the information on board. You will have done all that can be reasonably asked of you.

 

[Clip]

People won't look at posters on their own, but they will look in the direction of safety screens. If the posters are alongside the screens, they will see them when they look for information. It will be up to them whether they want to take the information on board. You will have done all that can be reasonably asked of you.

We do that by having the information on the screens themselves. That is why they are called information screens not anything more nor anything less.Its cost effective and does the job of a million posters.Especially on stations where there may not be room for anything more then an information screen.

In fact where some of ours are we have the information on posters on the wall next to the screens. No one pays attention. Do you know why? Because they look at the bloody screens.

 

[dieselbashdave]

Playing devils advocate here, I'm a 3rd year Business Management student (studied marketing and strategic management information systems). The trick seems to be in marketing theory and some limited evidence in practice that if such announcements were quirky, humorous and downright wacky people would:

a) Be more likely to pay attention to the announcements
b) Consign them to memory
c) Resulting in (hopefully!) less accidents, falls, etc
and d) Not boring regular travellers

This would achieve both ends and make both camps happy - in theory of course. As we're talking about humans here success may well be limited or have all sorts of unintended consequences.

An example that I recall is Thomson Airways or whatever it's called. Their pre-flight safety video featured a small girl and some other kids dressed up as cabin crew and passengers, and from what I can remember it was a huge hit. There may be a video on YT somewhere, but the point I'm trying to make is that by using humour the "advertising material" tends to be remembered, and it serves the function of entertainment and purpose. A la Aleksandr Orlov the Meerkat.

Just don't do the opera singer from Confused.Com otherwise you might find clinically insane passengers!

 

[yorksrob]

Its cost effective and does the job of a million posters.Especially on stations where there may not be room for anything more then an information screen.

It gets in the way of telling people where the train is going.

 

[D1009]

Nope, but it is found that given people pay attention to the information screens(the clue to what they do is in the title you have alluded to yourself - Information) then this has been found to be the best way to convey safety information to our passengers.

Do you know of a better way then? Please do tell so we can take it on board and put in practice. As much as you want to pillory the rail industry for how we go about things we are always happy enough to take on board your ideas and try them out. But you have already done this haven't you.

You seem to have assumed that I am outside the industry. I'm sorry to inform you that I joined BR in 1967 and am still working. I haven't been in a customer facing role since 1969 but have the utmost respect for those who are. I have been an enthusiast for as long as I can remember and I have many experiences of the ***** you guys face.

Apart from that I maintain that the first thing the passengers want to know is the time and the platform of their next train, and the industry should put that above the demands of ambulance chasing lawyers for whom I have no respect whatsoever.

Also I'm not sure you answered my question about whether it makes any difference how safety information is displayed (as long as it is displayed) in the event of legal proceedings against the railway.

 

[Clip]

You seem to have assumed that I am outside the industry. I'm sorry to inform you that I joined BR in 1967 and am still working. I haven't been in a customer facing role since 1969 but have the utmost respect for those who are. I have been an enthusiast for as long as I can remember and I have many experiences of the ***** you guys face.

Apart from that I maintain that the first thing the passengers want to know is the time and the platform of their next train, and the industry should put that above the demands of ambulance chasing lawyers for whom I have no respect whatsoever.

Also I'm not sure you answered my question about whether it makes any difference how safety information is displayed (as long as it is displayed) in the event of legal proceedings against the railway.

You're right they do. But in the absence of common sense from the general travelling public they pay no attention to anything but the information screens. Which is why they are called just that.

Im unsure as yet as to whether it makes any difference to legal proceedings how it is displayed but as Dave alluded to earlier, we have to be shown to broadcast the information in anyway possible and thus it is deemed that given posters do not work then the information screens are the best informant to the public of whatever relevant information we deem necessary. All to easy for someone to say a poster was obscured/not there then it is with a big orange display showing the same information at regular intervals.

If this is too much for people to grasp in its simplicity then I cant account for that, but at least you all now know why we do it and cant try and sue me for doing it this way