"Please hold on......." Announcement

[Deerfold]

That does not change the point. You are still saying "at least it's consistent (meaning not dependent on what driver you get)" as if that makes up for it being misinformation that is being broadcast. I think prioritising irrelevant consistency over basic honesty is rather silly.

I'm not saying that at all. I've said I don't think they should have it at all. If you're going to have it and you could make it accurate it would be better to be automated. I've asked you when the driver should activate it (and wondered how many actually will), but you've chosen to ignore this and suggest I'm trying to promote incorrect information being broadcast. If we must have it, I've already mentioned that iBus knows when the doors have been closed - this information could be used (though the announcement may not be complete before the driver leaves and they can always reopen the door).

 

[Smod]

For years disposable cups had warning notices on them about the contents being hot. I think this came about because someone sued a drinks retailer because they hadn't been warned - and won.

When I first heard the "bus about to move" announcement, I assumed it had come about for a similar reason - as a reaction to litigation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For years disposable cups had warning notices on them about the contents being hot. I think this came about because someone sued a drinks retailer because they hadn't been warned - and won.

This allegedly comes from the McDonald's case, but that case is not as it seems. Back then McDonald's kept filter coffee at a far higher temperature than was conventional in order to make it last longer - that was the root of why the litigant was successful, not because of the absence of a warning on the cup. Coffee kept at a normal temperature would not have caused such serious injuries, and it would be reasonable for someone to assume that McDonald's would serve filter coffee at the same temperature as everywhere else unless they made it clear otherwise.

The only time I've encountered coffee that hot recently was the independent place at Barnham station, and it burnt my mouth (with a small blister) even with cold milk added. I wasn't too impressed, as with the polystyrene cup it was served in I had to wait a good 20 minutes before I could drink it when, like most purchasers of coffee on stations, I wanted to drink it straight away.

Tea by contrast would be expected to be served that hot as boiling water is necessary for proper taste, and so I wouldn't have expected a case along those lines but relating to a cup of tea to be successful, nor would I have attempted to drink a cup of tea straight away.

It's all about reasonable expectations.

Detail of the case here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

 

[Busaholic]

These announcements featured in the Radio4 'More or Less' programme at the weekend, the conclusions of a renowned statistician and a psychologist were that they would be ineffective, even counter-productive. I hope someone with influence over the issue at TfL was listening, because the psychologist said passengers soon wouldn't be!

 

[GodAtum]

I've tried to tune it out. Anyway the announcement makes no sense as buses hardly move in central London!

 

[96tommy]

I can't work the announcements out, sometimes they play after every stop but ost times I find them playing maybe once every 2 or 3 stops. Does it only play if someone has gone upstairs?

 

[Deerfold]

I can't work the announcements out, sometimes they play after every stop but ost times I find them playing maybe once every 2 or 3 stops. Does it only play if someone has gone upstairs?

Is it only when the bus actually stops?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a defined time period after a stop where the doors are opened, I believe.

 

[Lrd]

I can't work the announcements out, sometimes they play after every stop but ost times I find them playing maybe once every 2 or 3 stops. Does it only play if someone has gone upstairs?

I believe it's only when the front set of doors are opened

 

[antharro]

Utterly ridiculous. It's a bus, of course it's going to move. And has been said, the doors close, nearly always with a buzz, you might get some idea that the bus is going to move next, given it's.... a bus! I've found, on routes near me, that if the bus isn't going to move, the driver plays an automated announcement saying the bus will be held.

For those for whom this is making bus travel an unpleasant or untenable experience, would this be a good time to mention that Zipcar are doing free sign-ups at the moment?

 

[96tommy]

Thanks for the replies. Got to get the 205 from Stepney to Euston.later so will see how often the announcement plays

 

[700007]

As it is a Thursday, the iBus team are coming in tonight to update the announcement.

From tomorrow morning it will be 'Please hold on whilst the bus is moving' for the remaining two out of four weeks of the trial.

 

[quarella]

Not as irritating as I expected. There was a letter from Clare Mann, Tfl Director of Bus Operations in the London Evening Standard yesterday, Wed 23 January 2018 saying the announcement is not due to fear of litigation. Trial lasting four weeks after which they will review the impact on passenger safety.

 

[edwin_m]

Not as irritating as I expected. There was a letter from Clare Mann, Tfl Director of Bus Operations in the London Evening Standard yesterday, Wed 23 January 2018 saying the announcement is not due to fear of litigation. Trial lasting four weeks after which they will review the impact on passenger safety.

Will that count all the passengers driven stir crazy (or no longer using the buses) because of all the inane announcements?

 

[quarella]

Will that count all the passengers driven stir crazy (or no longer using the buses) because of all the inane announcements?

As I have stated upthread I would like these announcements withdrawn but I have not noticed people driven stir crazy or abandoning other places with excessively verbose and irritating announcements. I expect they will just shut it out either mentally or by other means. It is interesting to note on my rail travels how many auto announcements on trains and at stations are followed by one made manually repeating exactly the same information.
In the first 30 seconds of A Transport of delight by Flanders and Swann in 1957 -

 

[Hornet]

Just back from London, where I was able to sample the 'delights' of the said recorded message on the 285, 81 and 140. I'm convinced whoever came up with this idea has never travelled by Bus. on the 81 alone you get '81 (long pause) to (short pause) Hounslow Bus Station (pause) Please hold on ........'. Now the Bus invariably moved off before we got to 'to'. In one case some rang the bell to stop the bus midway between two stops just at the pause after 'Station' (the whole announcement still played). We stopped at one point to regulate the spacing between Buses. The full announcement was made a minute before we resumed our journey.

On the 140 we had the extra announcement (played three times after each stop after South Harrow) about seats being available upstairs! WTF! you only need to play that once, or for the driver to tell people to move upstairs, or he will not be going anywhere.

It was (almost) a joy to get back on Dublin Bus and just hear the next stop announced in English and Irish. Dublin Bus make the occasional 'hold on' announcements, normally when the Bus is full and standing. I hope they don't go down the TfL route. The scobies will have a field day suing Dublin Bus/NTA. I can just imagining it now 'Jaysus, yer honor, me and da mot were on da 27 to Tala, when da Bus went flyin' down da road without da 'hold on' warnin'. Me mot and I went flyin', and me stash I got in da Barn went everywhere. It cost me a fortune! Me mot broke her new gel fingernail, where's me compo!' Don't follow TfL, Dublin Bus.

 

[Deerfold]

On the 140 we had the extra announcement (played three times after each stop after South Harrow) about seats being available upstairs! WTF! you only need to play that once, or for the driver to tell people to move upstairs, or he will not be going anywhere.

The upstairs message is driver activated.

When iBus began, messages were deliberately chosen to be as short as possible whilst still providing useful information to reduce annoyance for regular passengers. So we cut out the bits in brackets:

(This is bus is the service) 36 to Victoria. (The next stop is) Danger Street. Alight here for Danger Station.

Only a limited number of attractions were allowed for the "Alight here" message to reduce these.

 

[Hornet]

This was doing the rounds in 2014, and only for approaching stops.

Dublin Bus - should they stop announcements of stops?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057169218

 

[londonbridge]

I hadn't been on a bus since Tuesday and noticed on my journey this morning that the announcement had changed to 'please hold on while the bus is moving', as stated earlier. The thing now is that it doesn't really matter whether or not the bus is already moving when the announcement plays, which was the main issue with the first one. I suspect that passengers will be less inclined to complain about the new version and will just learn to block it out and not notice it after a while, and we'll end up stuck with it for good.

 

[Romilly]

I noticed the change last night. It is certainly better than the first message. But it doesn't distinguish between standing passengers and seated passengers: I ended up thinking that no moving bus should be being driven in such a way that seated passengers need to hold on. But that thought was immediately qualified by a thought about emergency stops.

And indeed, perhaps the real problem is that the time when passengers really need to be holding on is when the bus slows/stops suddenly: but by the time you've heard "please hold on - this bus is decelerating rapidly" it would be too late, even if the message kicked in when the driver started to apply the brake (and then there would need to be a sensor to determine whether the pressure being applied to the brake would or would not give rise to rapid, as opposed to gentle, deceleration).

 

[edwin_m]

The trams in Croydon ring the bell continuously if the maximum ("hazard") brake is applied. I'm not sure if this is intended to alert passengers or other road users or both.

 

[DaveB10780]

I had my first experience today. What a load of unnecessary rubbish, scary world we live in where this is thought a good idea. I am sure I will tune it out eventually.
Oddly I think the most likely time for a fall is when the bus is stopping and you have got up early not when it is leaving a stop.

 

[londonbridge]

I ended up thinking that no moving bus should be being driven in such a way that seated passengers need to hold on.

Indeed it shouldn't, but that doesn't stop some people who insist on spending the entire journey sitting with their arm outstretched gripping either the upright pole or the back of the seat in front of them.

 

[Buggleskelly]

It seems that the trial is over maybe, never heard the announcement at all today on my travels. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Ianno87]

It seems that the trial is over maybe, never heard the announcement at all today on my travels. Can anyone confirm?

Was playing on the 45 yesterday. Not sure why holding on when the bus is moving is necessary when you're sitting down...

 

[Taunton]

2018 : "Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention please, this is an important announcement. It is a condition of Carriage under the PCV Regulations, Section 32, paragraph 36 (b) that all passengers must, unless physically unable to do so, hold onto a vertical or horizontal stanchion as the driver is about to engage the forward gears and ...".

1968 " 'old tight!" ding-ding.

 

[Mag_seven]

It seems that the trial is over maybe, never heard the announcement at all today on my travels. Can anyone confirm?

I was on a couple of London buses today and confirm that that this is the case (at least for the buses I was on)

 

[Buggleskelly]

I was on a couple of London buses today and confirm that that this is the case (at least for the buses I was on)

After a week of wondering, it seems that the announcement has indeed ceased. I live in the London Borough of Havering and none of the two dozen or so services here have had the announcement since my last post.

 

[londonteacher]

Just travelling on the 53 and now there is the following announcement 'This bus is ready to depart' which is announced as the bus driver begins to close the doors. Is this a new trial? I was on the 24 earlier and did not hear it.

 

[Mikey C]

Just travelling on the 53 and now there is the following announcement 'This bus is ready to depart' which is announced as the bus driver begins to close the doors. Is this a new trial? I was on the 24 earlier and did not hear it.

Please no.....