PlusBus from SY/WYPTE boundary stations

[lyndhurst25]

Moorthorpe, South Elmsall and Denby Dale stations are in West Yorkshire. Darton station is in South Yorkshire. I can't get Northern's website to offer either South Yorkshire or West Yorkshire PlusBus tickets travelling from any of these stations. Is that the official policy or is it a mistake by Northern?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Non of them are Plusbus stations. You can check stations at http://www.plusbus.info/stations/2 They may be within a plusbus area, but still not a Plusbus station!

 

[button_boxer]

Looking at the PlusBus website it does appear that PlusBus tickets for SY are only available in conjunction with a rail ticket to Sheffield, Meadowhall, Rotherham, Doncaster or Barnsley.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Not every station in a Plusbus area has a Plusbus ticket (for reasons I have never understood)

 

[lyndhurst25]

• What I'm on about is travelling from one the boundary stations to PlusBus station, e.g. Moorthorpe to Sheffield, with Sheffield Plusbus.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If your ticket is between two stations in a Plusbus area, then you can't have a plusbus ticket. But if you booked from a station outside the area, to a valid Plusbus station inside the area, then it is available.

 

[lyndhurst25]

If your ticket is between two stations in a Plusbus area, then you can't have a plusbus ticket. But if you booked from a station outside the area, to a valid Plusbus station inside the area, then it is available.

Not on Northern's website, it isn't. Moorthorpe is in West Yorkshire and is outside the South Yorkshire PlusBus area. I can't get the website to offer me a Sheffield PlusBus add-on with a Moorthorpe to Sheffield rail ticket. It will from Fizwilliam however.

 

[button_boxer]

Not on Northern's website, it isn't. Moorthorpe is in West Yorkshire and is outside the South Yorkshire PlusBus area. I can't get the website to offer me a Sheffield PlusBus add-on with a Moorthorpe to Sheffield rail ticket. It will from Fizwilliam however.

SYPTE TravelMaster tickets are valid at Moorthorpe even though it's (just) over the boundary. I presume PlusBus follows the same rules given PB tickets cover the whole PTE area.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I don't know why, but there are no Moorthorpe to Sheffield Plusbus fares. No other retailer sells them either, it isn't just Northern

 

[_toommm_]

Not on Northern's website, it isn't. Moorthorpe is in West Yorkshire and is outside the South Yorkshire PlusBus area. I can't get the website to offer me a Sheffield PlusBus add-on with a Moorthorpe to Sheffield rail ticket. It will from Fizwilliam however.

One can assume is that because Moorthorpe is a valid station to use a south yorkshire trainmaster or multi-modal ticket, then you can't buy a Sheffield PlusBus as even though geographically you're in WY, ticket wise you're still in SY.

It's worth checkking the same for Denby Dale to Sheffield, and if that doesn't allow a PlusBus to be bought, then you know that you can't for Moorthorpe

 

[lyndhurst25]

I already have a scratch-off West Yorkshire train Day Rover that I want to use in combination with a ticket to get me to Sheffield and include South Yorkshire buses. I am aware that the SY TravelMaster (or whatever its new name is) is valid from Moorthorpe, but would the combination of a WY Day Rover + SY TravelMaster be valid on express trains not stopping at Moorthorpe? I thought that it had to be one zonal ticket plus one "normal" ticket meeting at the changeover point, rather than a combination of two zonal tickets.

Looking at the maps on the PlusBus website, Moorthorpe station is most certainly outside the South Yorkshire PlusBus area so it is strange that PlusPus tickets from it to Sheffield/Rotherham/Doncaster/Barnsley are not available.

 

[_toommm_]

I already have a scratch-off West Yorkshire train Day Rover that I want to use in combination with a ticket to get me to Sheffield and include South Yorkshire buses. I am aware that the SY TravelMaster (or whatever its new name is) is valid from Moorthorpe, but would the combination of a WY Day Rover + SY TravelMaster be valid on express trains not stopping at Moorthorpe? I thought that it had to be one zonal ticket plus one "normal" ticket meeting at the changeover point, rather than a combination of two zonal tickets.

Looking at the maps on the PlusBus website, Moorthorpe station is most certainly outside the South Yorkshire PlusBus area so it is strange that PlusPus tickets from it to Sheffield/Rotherham/Doncaster/Barnsley are not available.

It wouldn't no - the only trains that run non-stop through Moorthorpe are the XC ones and it wouldn't be valid on them after Wakefield Westgate - you'd have to use the ticket up to Westgate then buy a train ticket (this could enable you to actually be able to buy plusbus too)

 

[unlevel42]

No point selling a more expensive product.
Currently at £7.90 for all bus train travel in South Yorkshire (and South Elmsall and Moorthorpe), theSYconnect+ ticket will be cheaper than a possible Moorthorpe PlusBus ticket as the peak return fare is £7.40 for the train only.
NB The SYconnect+ is not valid on buses at Moorthorpe or South Elmsall.
Same applies for Denby Dale.

 

[marcouk2]

No point selling a more expensive product.

Except that a railcard holder can get it cheaper if further train travel isn't required.

I've been a few rounds with Northern over this issue in the past, having multiple incidents of a guard refusing to sell a SY Plusbus when travelling from Moorthorpe to Meadowhall and wanting onwards Tram travel.

Got an apology and compensation RTV onetime and the second time another apology and Northern day tickets.

 

[55z]

South Elmsall, Moorfthorpe, Darton & Denby Dale for the PTE purposes are regarded as boundry station for both South Yorkshire & West Yorkshire. In Metro (West Yorkshire) day rover etc tickets (Metro products) are only valid within the county up to and including the last calling point of that train (train MUST STOP) Westgate to Sheffield non stop then the ticket is only valid within the county as far as Wakefield Westgate. Plus Bus tickets are not based on counties but on towns/Cities and on the plus bus site there are maps showing the area. Look at the Plus Bus website for full info.

 

[marcouk2]

It wouldn't no - the only trains that run non-stop through Moorthorpe are the XC ones and it wouldn't be valid on them after Wakefield Westgate - you'd have to use the ticket up to Westgate then buy a train ticket (this could enable you to actually be able to buy plusbus too)

The SYPTE Travelmaster/SYConnect+ has t&cs forbidding non-stopping splits but the WY DayRover doesn't so a ticket should just be needed from Moorthorpe.

 

[lyndhurst25]

SY TravelMaster/Connect+ would be my choice if we're travelling on a Northern stopper via Moorthorpe. However, I was wanting to use non-stop trains between Wakefield and Sheffield. Likewise, as stated above, for railcard users, a "from Moorthorpe" PlusBus ticket to SY PlusBus destinations would be cheaper than the £7.90 TravelMaster.

It seems that passengers travelling from a Moorthorpe and the other three boundary stations are unable, online at least, to buy PlusBus tickets to either SY or WY destinations. So Northern admitted that this was wrong and that SY PlusBus should actually be available from Moorthorpe?

 

[marcouk2]

SY TravelMaster/Connect+ would be my choice if we're travelling on a Northern stopper via Moorthorpe. However, I was wanting to use non-stop trains between Wakefield and Sheffield. Likewise, as stated above, for railcard users, a "from Moorthorpe" PlusBus ticket to SY PlusBus destinations would be cheaper than the £7.90 TravelMaster.

It seems that passengers travelling from a Moorthorpe and the other three boundary stations are unable, online at least, to buy PlusBus tickets to either SY or WY destinations. So Northern admitted that this was wrong and that SY PlusBus should actually be available from Moorthorpe?

This was ~18 months ago, I'll see if I can dig out the Northern letters.

I do recall at the time that the Northern website would actually sell you a SY Plusbus for a Moorthorpe to South Yorkshire service so it kinda scuppered their argument straight away. I can't see any obvious changes to Plusbus that would make it invalid.

 

[_toommm_]

The SYPTE Travelmaster/SYConnect+ has t&cs forbidding non-stopping splits but the WY DayRover doesn't so a ticket should just be needed from Moorthorpe.

But would a XC guard believe you, and if not, is that rule available on hand in writing, either on a website or on a leaflet?

 

[marcouk2]

But would a XC guard believe you, and if not, is that rule available on hand in writing, either on a website or on a leaflet?

NRCoT says:

14.2 If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

14.3 Some Tickets specifically exclude their use in conjunction with other Tickets. This will be made clear in the terms and conditions when buying such Tickets, and you cannot use such a Ticket in conjunction with another except as set out in 14.1 above.

And the terms & conditions for the WY Dayrover - https://ticketsandpasses.wymetro.co...r_and_Weekender_general_terms_and_conditions/ don't prohibit a 14.2 split.

I've only used it myself travelling on Northern but had no problems switching to/from a WY Dayrover at a non-stopping station.

 

[yorkie]

South Elmsall, Moorfthorpe, Darton & Denby Dale for the PTE purposes are regarded as boundry station for both South Yorkshire & West Yorkshire. In Metro (West Yorkshire) day rover etc tickets (Metro products) are only valid within the county up to and including the last calling point of that train (train MUST STOP) Westgate to Sheffield non stop then the ticket is only valid within the county as far as Wakefield Westgate. Plus Bus tickets are not based on counties but on towns/Cities and on the plus bus site there are maps showing the area. Look at the Plus Bus website for full info.

A WY DayRover or MetroCard + Moorthorpe to Sheffield ticket would be valid on non-stop trains, as per NRCoT Condition 14.

I don't know why, but there are no Moorthorpe to Sheffield Plusbus fares. No other retailer sells them either, it isn't just Northern

PlusBus tickets are add-ons for bus travel only, so a Sheffield PlusBus would not issued from Moorthorpe to Sheffield Plusbus; they would be issued from Sheffield to Sheffield PlusBus in conjunction with a rail ticket from Moorthorpe to Sheffield.

I suspect the website in question uses a list of all the stations within the South Yorkshire PTE area for ticketing purposes and excludes all of them from being considered valid origins for the relevant PlusBus fare add-ons, but this is clearly incorrect methodology in the case of Moorthorpe.

 

[unlevel42]

"PlusBus tickets are add-ons for bus travel only,..." also trams.

A railcard fare at a third off would mean a Moorthorpe and Sheffield Plusbus would cost £7.52 instead of £7.90 for a SYConnect+.

 

[sheff1]

A railcard fare at a third off would mean a Moorthorpe and Sheffield Plusbus would cost £7.52 instead of £7.90 for a SYConnect+.

A railcard discounted Off Peak Day Return Moorthorpe to Sheffield with Plusbus costs £6.75. A discounted Anytime Day Return with Plusbus is £7.55.

 

[Haywain]

"PlusBus tickets are add-ons for bus travel only,..." also trams.

Not in every area with trams. Manchester PlusBus is not valid on trams.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Every area with trams except Manchester, they have chosen to go it alone!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Not every station in a Plusbus area has a Plusbus ticket (for reasons I have never understood)

Originally they did, but there was a massive "cull" a few years ago as they were running out of National Location Codes for new add-ons.

I believe the instructions issued at the time were that otherwise qualifying journeys could still get PlusBus by issuing them from the relevant railhead instead of the local station, but can't find that in writing.

 

[lyndhurst25]

In the end, as I was offered a lift from Sheffield station, I decided that I didn't need the PlusBus, but did travel from Leeds to Sheffield using the combination of a West Yorkshire Day Rover plus an off-peak day return from Moorthorpe to Sheffield. Unfortunately, and as some predicted, the guard on an East Midlands service passing non-stop through Moorthorpe, was not at all happy that my combination of tickets was valid "because it's a Day Rover, not a Flexi-Rover". I had to be equally insistent that I would not be buying another ticket before he left me alone "letting me off just this once", but not changing his view on the matter. Oh dear. I shall be writing to East Midland Trains this afternoon.

 

[roversfan2001]

When the NRCoC was superseded by the NRCoT in October 2016 that was one of many changes, before that it had to be a rover valid for multiple days (or a season), otherwise the train had to stop. Some guards at various TOC's (and ticket office staff) didn't know about this change for some time after the changeover, and clearly some still don't know.

 

[lyndhurst25]

NRCoC changed to NRCoT over 14 months ago now. I could forgive staff for not being aware if the changes in the first few weeks but surely not after all this time? Ideally I would have expected that staff should have been briefed about the changes before they were brought in, in October 2016. Alas it seems not.

 

[sheff1]

Some staff believe the T&Cs pertaining 20 years ago still apply and will never change for as long as they work on the railway.