Plymouth Citybus

[richw]

Also how many contracts were held by small coach firms?

the majority are small operators with small minibuses to access the narrow country lanes and tiny villages

 

[carlberry]

the majority are small operators with small minibuses to access the narrow country lanes and tiny villages

The odd thing about these 'mega' contracts is that it's the less populous counties that are served by lots of small local companies that do them (Dorset, Powys for example) and it's always the small companies that end up being effected the most (even if they're sub contracted onto the same routes again it's usually not at the same rates).

 

[Busaholic]

First are not sacking anyone, and Go-Ahead will need to find some new drivers? Has First done this so scupper Go ahead? Also how many contracts were held by small coach firms?

Sounds like Barnstaple all over again - some routes well overbussed and carrying one man and his dog.

 

[Busaholic]

The odd thing about these 'mega' contracts is that it's the less populous counties that are served by lots of small local companies that do them (Dorset, Powys for example) and it's always the small companies that end up being effected the most (even if they're sub contracted onto the same routes again it's usually not at the same rates).

I hardly know Dorset, but from all I've read in the mags and these forums the bus service has got a lot worse over the last few years, away from the Poole/Bournemouth bit. Hope this is not a presage of what is to befall Cornwall.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I hardly know Dorset, but from all I've read in the mags and these forums the bus service has got a lot worse over the last few years, away from the Poole/Bournemouth bit. Hope this is not a presage of what is to befall Cornwall.

The Dorset package was mainly “as was” and aside from the X53 (that was turned commercial) and the Sunday 31 that lasted for a good few years, it remained reasonably intact.

It was the 2017 programme (a more conventional tender with area packages) that saw the big cuts that you refer to. That was down to austerity cuts more than anything.

 

[83G/84D]

Enviro 400 502 currently located in Truro coach park.

 

[richw]

Plymouth citybus have rebranded their Pride bus as a NHS thanks livery.
reading the replies on Twitter it’s a PR disaster with the LGBT community! They don’t seem very inclusive of the NHS in their campaign for inclusivity for everyone
Link and screenshot as I suspect the post may get removed at some point such is the negativity surrounding it

Plymouth Citybus on Twitter

“ Rainbows have become synonymous with hope and the NHS during the current pandemic, so we thought what better way to show our thanks to our amazing NHS and key workers, than to re-brand our Pride bus to our rainbow 'NHS' bus? Look out for the bus on our roads soon!”

twitter.com

 

[ValleyLines142]

Plymouth citybus have rebranded their Pride bus as a NHS thanks livery.
reading the replies on Twitter it’s a PR disaster with the LGBT community! They don’t seem very inclusive of the NHS in their campaign for inclusivity for everyone
Link and screenshot as I suspect the post may get removed at some point such is the negativity surrounding it

Plymouth Citybus on Twitter

“ Rainbows have become synonymous with hope and the NHS during the current pandemic, so we thought what better way to show our thanks to our amazing NHS and key workers, than to re-brand our Pride bus to our rainbow 'NHS' bus? Look out for the bus on our roads soon!”

twitter.com

It's not inclusive of the NHS because it is no longer 'inclusive'. It is because it's washed away of the celebration of the LGBT+ Community. They should have branded a separate vehicle, as Thameslink have done. The evidence is there in black and white: 'Re-brand Pride'. Many NHS workers, both identifying within the LBGT+ category or not, have slammed PC for it and rightly so, and for me, identifying as gay and non-binary, it is incredibly distasteful.

Ultimately it all comes down to the re-branding to another campaign at the expense of an existing one is the choice that involves the least amount of money and effort on PC's part.

 

[cactustwirly]

It's not inclusive of the NHS because it is no longer 'inclusive'. It is because it's washed away of the celebration of the LGBT+ Community. They should have branded a separate vehicle, as Thameslink have done. The evidence is there in black and white: 'Re-brand Pride'. Many NHS workers, both identifying within the LBGT+ category or not, have slammed PC for it and rightly so, and for me, identifying as gay and non-binary, it is incredibly distasteful.

Ultimately it all comes down to the re-branding to another campaign at the expense of an existing one is the choice that involves the least amount of money and effort on PC's part.

I literally don't see the issue, they're saying thanks to the NHS, which is a nice gesture.
Saying it's no longer inclusive is just ridiculous, and hypercritical tbh.
Afterall it's only a bus...

 

[ValleyLines142]

I literally don't see the issue, they're saying thanks to the NHS, which is a nice gesture.
Saying it's no longer inclusive is just ridiculous, and hypercritical tbh.
Afterall it's only a bus...

Saying thank you to the NHS isn't the issue, I don't see any issue with that. The problem is that they have naively interchanged the two.

Even if they kept the Pride slogan on the bus, it would have been fine. They then could have had on the bottom 'thank you NHS', without removing the Pride slogan.

PC will have a shock in the morning when they check their social media feed, and rightly so! Think they'll be removing it in due course.

That's just my opinion anyway.

 

[GusB]

Goodness me! All they're doing is replacing one lot of special branding on a bus with another lot, without having to repaint/re-vinyl the whole thing. I doubt it's intended as a snub to any particular community and I certainly don't find it offensive. I always thought that companies generally applied "Pride" branding in the run up to "Pride Season" (which probably won't be happening this year anyway) and that such liveries were never intended to be a permanent feature.

There's also the cost of rebranding another vehicle to take into account. I read the first few posts in that Twitter feed and quickly closed the tab on my browser. So many people getting offended over absolutely nothing.

 

[RHolmes]

One of the problems is that the bus is in the colours of the pride flag (the LGBT pride flag does not use the same colours as a rainbow, only using 6), a symbol of struggle and fights for LGBT rights equal to that of those who are hetrosexual.

It’s a really not good PR at all.

 

[ValleyLines142]

One of the problems is that the bus is in the colours of the pride flag (the LGBT pride flag does not use the same colours as a rainbow, only using 6), a symbol of struggle and fights for LGBT rights equal to that of those who are hetrosexual.

It’s a really not good PR at all.

Exactly.

 

[RHolmes]

To again put it into perspective, they have essentially taken a symbol used to empower a movement away from oppression of a community and used it for a cheap PR stunt without thinking about the bigger picture of what they have done and that is what people are outraged/disappointed with.

The LGBT community, whilst largely accepted here in the UK, they still face hardship. Even in 2018 a survey shown that 2/3rds of LGBT people still fear holding hands with their partner in public for fear of being ridiculed and physically assaulted by members of the public, and France have recently declared that homophobic hate crimes had risen by 36% last year, with over half of that involving men under the age of 35.

Again, the 6 coloured pride flag is used as a symbol of defiance to suppression, with each colour specifically chosen to represent a different meaning and globally recognised as symbolic representation for social equality

Would it be acceptable for a company to do the same and ‘re-brand’ other symbols that represent oppressed groups such as The women’s rights movement? Or The Star of David for example and ‘re-brand’ those for another purpose or even the NHS logo?The simple answer would be no.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's not the first time PCB has courted controversy in this respect. I was taken aback that they chose to dedicate a bus to Nancy Astor, who was strongly anti-semitic and an admirer of Hitler. Yes, she was the first female MP, but such as a controversial character it's not something a bus operator should really be involved in, I'd have thought.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It's not the first time PCB has courted controversy in this respect. I was taken aback that they chose to dedicate a bus to Nancy Astor, who was strongly anti-semitic and an admirer of Hitler. Yes, she was the first female MP, but such as a controversial character it's not something a bus operator should really be involved in, I'd have thought.

Well based on that, and their latest homophobic stunt, I will not use their services if ever I am in Plymouth.

And I'm waiting for a 'oh don't be so ridiculous' comment but that's my view and I stand by it.

 

[carlberry]

Well based on that, and their latest homophobic stunt, I will not use their services if ever I am in Plymouth.

And I'm waiting for a 'oh don't be so ridiculous' comment but that's my view and I stand by it.

The other operators in Plymouth (none of whom have dedicated a bus to the Pride movement as far as I know) are now seen as better in some way than an operator that actually did something, and may well return it to it's original use once the little issue we're experianing at the moment is over. Also the term homophobic suggests that this change was in some way aimed at part of the Pride community, not all of it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well based on that, and their latest homophobic stunt, I will not use their services if ever I am in Plymouth.

And I'm waiting for a 'oh don't be so ridiculous' comment but that's my view and I stand by it.

I appreciate your views but I don't see there is any homophobic about this. It's not malicious. It's clumsy and ill considered.

Put bluntly, if they were homophobic, do you think they'd have painted a bus in pride colours in the first place? You really think that an operator with "having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people" would promote this by painting a bus up and running it for months???? Really?

That they don't have the awareness that an LGBT pride "rainbow" isn't the same as a rainbow in the more usual sense (viz 6 colours vs 7) smacks more of a lack of understanding than anything else. In which case, you question their sincerity or commitment - like a number of similar statements, is it just a bit of bandwagon jumping to get some PR. It does call into question whether bus operators, and society in general, should bother with similar commemorative or tribute type activity, rather than risk some media or twitter storm.



Still could be worse, when First Leeds named their then new hybrid deckers, they were "named after such Leeds based legends, both past and present, as Radio One's Chris Moyles, Spice Girl Melanie Brown, Harry Potter actor Matthew Lewis, late fund raiser Jane Tomlinson, Leeds United legend Billy Bremner and DJ and fundraiser Sir Jimmy Savile. "

 

[ValleyLines142]

I appreciate your views but I don't see there is any homophobic about this. It's not malicious. It's clumsy and ill considered.

Put bluntly, if they were homophobic, do you think they'd have painted a bus in pride colours in the first place? You really think that an operator with "having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people" would promote this by painting a bus up and running it for months???? Really?

That they don't have the awareness that an LGBT pride "rainbow" isn't the same as a rainbow in the more usual sense (viz 6 colours vs 7) smacks more of a lack of understanding than anything else. In which case, you question their sincerity or commitment - like a number of similar statements, is it just a bit of bandwagon jumping to get some PR. It does call into question whether bus operators, and society in general, should bother with similar commemorative or tribute type activity, rather than risk some media or twitter storm.



Still could be worse, when First Leeds named their then new hybrid deckers, they were "named after such Leeds based legends, both past and present, as Radio One's Chris Moyles, Spice Girl Melanie Brown, Harry Potter actor Matthew Lewis, late fund raiser Jane Tomlinson, Leeds United legend Billy Bremner and DJ and fundraiser Sir Jimmy Savile. "

It could be but even so.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It could be but even so.

It's fair to say that unless you're directly affected, it isn't always easy to appreciate the strength of feelings of others and why. However, that doesn't mean that most people aren't generally sympathetic to how some people have reacted to this.

However, you've mentioned homophobia and other people have also used the same term on Twitter. That term is wrong; it is a dislike or prejudice, either malicious or sub-conscious, and to bandy the term about lessens the impact of the word IMHO.

PCB have done something that was well intentioned but has turned out to be clumsy and cack-handed. I don't think there's a blatant or latent homophobia but just a lack of awareness; something that a) they should have realised about before they did this and b) they should have been aware of before the liveried the vehicle in the first place.

As for the moral outrage on Twitter, I wonder how many of the people who have displayed such uproar have used a Stagecoach bus or train over the last 20 years without appreciating the views of their founder?

 

[richw]

viz 6 colours vs 7

I’d never even noticed that until this storm happened nor did I realise each colour had a meaning. I have no interest in someone’s preferences and it’s none of my business really, and Would never judge someone on that basis. I hadn’t realised such issues were still prevalent in the modern day

 

[ValleyLines142]

It's fair to say that unless you're directly affected, it isn't always easy to appreciate the strength of feelings of others and why. However, that doesn't mean that most people aren't generally sympathetic to how some people have reacted to this.

However, you've mentioned homophobia and other people have also used the same term on Twitter. That term is wrong; it is a dislike or prejudice, either malicious or sub-conscious, and to bandy the term about lessens the impact of the word IMHO.

PCB have done something that was well intentioned but has turned out to be clumsy and cack-handed. I don't think there's a blatant or latent homophobia but just a lack of awareness; something that a) they should have realised about before they did this and b) they should have been aware of before the liveried the vehicle in the first place.

As for the moral outrage on Twitter, I wonder how many of the people who have displayed such uproar have used a Stagecoach bus or train over the last 20 years without appreciating the views of their founder?

I know what homophobia is. I think it's 'inadvertent' homophobia; completely unintentional but still a little ignorant.

 

[carlberry]

I know what homophobia is. I think it's 'inadvertent' homophobia; completely unintentional but still a little ignorant.

Not really wishing to extend a thread that's way off topic however, as TGW has eloquently said it's hard to see this action as homophobia. PCB have repurposed this bus at short notice, however they've shown some ignorance in doing it. Until this morning I didn't even realise the Pride symbol wasn't actually a rainbow, I suspect very few people do including lots of people in PCB. However that ignorance dosent make them homophobic but does suggest, if the Pride movement want to make an issue of it, that they need to call it something else.

Until there is actual evidence that somebody in PCB has deliberately changed the vinyls as a dig against the Pride community then this is very much just a stupid mistake, however calling it homophobic suggests that such an act would be specifically against part of the Pride community and not all of it.

To look at the bigger picture, once this gets more generally reported, how many bus companies do you think are now going to be going out of their way to paint vehicles in Pride colours?

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not really wishing to extend a thread that's way off topic however, as TGW has eloquently said it's hard to see this action as homophobia. PCB have repurposed this bus at short notice, however they've shown some ignorance in doing it. Until this morning I didn't even realise the Pride symbol wasn't actually a rainbow, I suspect very few people do including lots of people in PCB. However that ignorance dosent make them homophobic but does suggest, if the Pride movement want to make an issue of it, that they need to call it something else.

Until there is actual evidence that somebody in PCB has deliberately changed the vinyls as a dig against the Pride community then this is very much just a stupid mistake, however calling it homophobic suggests that such an act would be specifically against part of the Pride community and not all of it.

To look at the bigger picture, once this gets more generally reported, how many bus companies do you think are now going to be going out of their way to paint vehicles in Pride colours?

They've since apologised for any offence caused, a respectable thing to do.

 

[Mwanesh]

Am beginning to understand why operators dont do some liveries. People easily get offended.

 

[richw]

Wonder if it would cause similar offence if they painted it plain red.

 

[cnjb8]

I get what both sides have to say over this issue. What I don't understand is that Citybus publicly announced that they were rebranding their pride bus, yet they didn't expect people to kick off.

 

[DaveHarries]

Easiest thing for PCB to do, if they can, would be to put a different bus into Pride colours. Our NHS heroes are, at the moment, rightly getting all the appreciation they deserve. Perhaps, on the other hand, the easiest thing for PCB to have done in the first place would have been to put the NHS livery onto a different bus but I don't think PCB were intending to be homaphobic.

Dave

 

[buslad1988]

As someone of the community that pride represents I find it ridiculous what all the fuss is about. They should appreciate they had a bus in the first place. It is not offensive (to me personally) and I think the NHS/key workers should take priority at the moment IMO.

Perhaps only mistake PCB made (from a PR perspective) was mentioning in the tweet that they had re-branded the pride bus... they should have just said that this is now the NHS/key worker bus (or words to that effect). If the bus had been simply due for a repaint and went back into plain PCB livery would we be getting all this fuss?!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Easiest thing for PCB to do, if they can, would be to put a different bus into Pride colours. Our NHS heroes are, at the moment, rightly getting all the appreciation they deserve. Perhaps, on the other hand, the easiest thing for PCB to have done in the first place would have been to put the NHS livery onto a different bus but I don't think PCB were intending to be homaphobic.

Dave

Exactly that.