devon_metro
Established Member
Excellent, First class will be nice and empty for me 
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Plymouth/Exeter Sunday engineering work
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What has amazed me about this prolonged engineering possession is the total lack of information made available in advance to the general public and even train crew particularly at stations.Even as late as yesterday it was clear from remarks made by train crew at Exeter awaiting a Padd/Penzance service that even they with regards to the forthcoming Saturday possessions were only vagely aware,remarking "we had heard something you could be right".Excellent, First class will be nice and empty for me
First Great Westerns management right hand does not seem to know what the left hand is doing.What a shower to be running a railway.
Nat the Ned
Member
Saturday 24th most services are starting Totnes. The line is closed Totnes to Plymouth. Although buses still operating Tiveton Parkway to Plymouth for those people travelling 'up norf' to Plymouth and Kernow and vice versa...
paul1609
Established Member
Tiverton Parkway is much quicker from Plymouth by road than by rail.
This means you can maintain journey times even with engineering work.
This means you can maintain journey times even with engineering work.
Which raises an interting question,why even run trains to Plymouth at all?
devon_metro
Established Member
How fast do you drive?
Certainly quicker for rail IMO.
And anyway road travel is awful and should be discourgaed...
So a rare crossover available then
paul1609
Established Member
Observing all speed limits and driving quite reasonably i can easily beat a train from Plymouth Station to Tiverton Parkway Station by 10 to 15 mins in normal conditions.
National Express buses are scheduled 1 h 30 mins from Plymouth Bus Station to Taunton Bus Station (they dont stop at Tiverton) in normal conditions they can shave 10 to 12 mins off that. They are speed limited to 60 mph and climb the devon banks on the A38 at far less than that. The scheduled time for a FGW hst is 1 h 29 mins.
A full loaded car or coach is far more enviromentally friendly and fuel efficent than a hst.
I rest my case.
Turbostar
Member
How do you know, when you supposedly live in Sussex??? Anyway, I think you will find our new MTU-powered power cars are a lot better fuel efficient, & environmentally friendly than the Paxman-powered power cars.
I rest my case.
Mart
devon_metro
Established Member
A train with 2 engines with 500 pax vs a car ...
I think not...
I think not...
paul1609
Established Member
Whilst i live in West Sussex I'm also a sailor. In my 15 year career I've been based in Plymouth for about 6 years.
There is a guy called Richard Catlow who has calculated the fuel consuption of the various different modes. He gives talks to the different IET branches.
His figures quote an Audi 2.5 td (his own car) with 5 passengers as being more fuel efficent than all trains.
Hes the electrification Manager for Network Rail (DC) so he not exactly anti rail. I think from memory that the HST was the most economical Inter City Train but pushing anything that big along at 125 mph requires a lot of energy.
I dont have any figures for the rail versions of the Paxman Valenta engine but the Naval Version is fairly similar, at full power it drinks a litre of fuel in just under 10 seconds.
They replied! It took them 17 days but they finally did it. And what did they say? (Deep breath) "Please phone 08457 48 49 50 for the information you require".
I accept the argument that you can just pop down the station and get a timetable book, or download the same from the website. But for foreigners who browse the "Planned engineering works" sections, it's not exactly helpful - especially if, for whatever reason, they are unable to use the 0845 number.
Geoff M.
paul1609
Established Member
Was late at work today and just happened to catch a "Delayed First Great Western" service from Fareham to Fratton. The train was in trans- pennine livery but even more surprising the guard was in Arriva trains wales livery.
I was sugesting to her than she just didnt want to be associated with First, but she insisted that she was an ATW conductor. Whats going on?
Is Wessex going to be transferred to Wales or what?
I was sugesting to her than she just didnt want to be associated with First, but she insisted that she was an ATW conductor. Whats going on?
Is Wessex going to be transferred to Wales or what?
Nat the Ned
Member
ATW crew from Cardiff still crew some FGW services on the Pompey/Cardiff route, a set up left over from the creation of Wessex/Wales & Borders, this is supposedly to stop this year sometime......
And yes, a car is far faster than train from Tiverton to Plymouth. Better examples exsist, try a car Exeter to Penzance compared to train!!
However the Audi with five people may be more fuel efficient than a HST with five people on board, but it would take nearly 100 of these to seat the same number of people as a HST, so are 100 Audis as fuel efficient as one HST set??
And yes, a car is far faster than train from Tiverton to Plymouth. Better examples exsist, try a car Exeter to Penzance compared to train!!
However the Audi with five people may be more fuel efficient than a HST with five people on board, but it would take nearly 100 of these to seat the same number of people as a HST, so are 100 Audis as fuel efficient as one HST set??
Turbostar
Member
I did mention in a previous message (obviously you didn't read it fully), the MTU is a lot more fuel efficient, & environmentally friendly than the Paxman, hence why the power cars (not just FGW, but GNER as well) are being re-engined. Also, how can you compare the naval version of a Paxman to a rail version??? Surely a naval is gonna be put under a lot more load & stress than a rail version??? In my books, a ship is a lot bigger & powerful than a HST! lol
Mart
devon_metro
Established Member
Try Exeter- London...
Route Bristol for the M4 is a tad bit of a pain, unless you take the concrete A30!
paul1609
Established Member
The figure were quoted on a per passenger basis for a 200 mile intercity type journey;
HST
consumption per mile 2 gallons (both power cars)
total consumption 400 gallons
passengers 472
consumption per passenger 0.8475
Audi
consumption 53 mpg
total consumption 3.77 gallons
consumtion per passenger 0.7547
i believe the mtu engine is achieving savings of about 9% in FGW use compared to a valenta.
Turbostar
Member
Hence why the FGW & GNER fleet are being re-engined.
Mart
Mart
Its hardly surprising the car is quicker than train between Plymouth and Tiverton Parkway given that much of the main line west of Exeter is little more than a branch line speed wise while the trunk road network has been completely rebuilt since the 1970s (A30/A38) and now of course we have the rapid growth in air travel.Against this backround I have always thought that at some point in the future Plymouth will be the first major British city to be severed from the national rail network.
devon_metro
Established Member
Doubt it, most trains are busy...
Just need some serious speed increases between Plymouth-Newton perhaps utilising tilt equipment of the 221s. Also 125mph from Exeter-Reading
paul1609
Established Member
Must admit that for my last stint in Plymouth (2004) someone had made a real hash of the connections at Westbury for the South Coast and the recommended route was normally VXC to Bristol TM and then Wessex to Portsmouth.
At that time I found that the HSTs through to Cornwall were usually busy but that the FGW Plymouth Service was very often nearly empty after Exeter.
I took to flying home to Gatwick on a Friday afternoon and returning first thing on a Monday morning with Air Southwest whom I rate quite highly. If I needed to be back early on a Monday morning i caught the Night Rivera back from Paddington
At that time I found that the HSTs through to Cornwall were usually busy but that the FGW Plymouth Service was very often nearly empty after Exeter.
I took to flying home to Gatwick on a Friday afternoon and returning first thing on a Monday morning with Air Southwest whom I rate quite highly. If I needed to be back early on a Monday morning i caught the Night Rivera back from Paddington
By way of comparison, from the 2008 timetable change when Virgin West Coast services will be further excellerated,the Preston/Euston journey time will be 2 hours 10 minutes compared to an unreliable best 3 hour from Plymouth to Paddington, both similar distances.Of course the difference is £7billion of upgrade which FGW can only dream about.Newquay Airport already has 5 daily Air Southwest flights a day to Gatwick, with British Airways re-introducing an additional service shortly.The point I am making is that FGWs current service from Penzance/Plymouth to Paddington has and will change very little, despite faster road and air alternatives now being available.In the long term that is commercial suicide,hence my reference to future problems this far west which is well beyond FGWs bread and butter Monday/Friday London commuter market.
I want to see the railways prosper and believe in them passionately but I am also a realist,at moment the FGW are competing in a 21st Century transport market with 20th Century infrastructure west of Exeter and that cannot go on indefinately.
I want to see the railways prosper and believe in them passionately but I am also a realist,at moment the FGW are competing in a 21st Century transport market with 20th Century infrastructure west of Exeter and that cannot go on indefinately.
Andrew
Member
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It all depends on what happens to the sea wall. If theres finance for an alternative inland route, then services to Plymouth are safe. If there's no money in the pot for a new route, the service will continue to go downhill as it becomes less and less competitive and the infrastrucutre deteriorates further.
devon_metro
Established Member
Ideally express trains should use a route that follows the A380, whilst missing telegraph hill. This would then join the mainline again near Kingsteigton then everyone is happy. This could then allow units to run along the sea wall. Singling of the line might be appropriate in these cases. But anyway. Network Rail don't care, The government doesn't care. There is so much potential for the South West and we are stuck with ruddy tourists!
Turbostar
Member
Just out of curiosity, while all this weekend work is going on, where are the HST sets being stored when terminating at Exeter St. Davids? I presuming Riverside Yard is being utilised?
Mart
Mart
devon_metro
Established Member
I imagine the platforms, only one train per hour.
Was at Exeter Last Sunday and all terminating HSTs were being platformed and turned around using platforms 3 to 6 with platform 1 doing the Waterloo and local services.
Turbostar
Member
Ah rite, just curious. Cheers.
Mart
Mart
Thank goodness that spell of disruption is over,I understand that Plymouth/Par is closed next for 3 Sundays after Easter.On a recent trip from Plymouth to Penzance I noted that the earthworks alignment of the new Dobwalls bypass appears to cut straight across the Cornish main line.I assume that at some point the line will have to be closed for construction of a crossing point over/under the railway here.Does anyone know anymore.
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