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Police Scotland to take over British Transport Police in Scotland? [Now on hold]

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Xenophon PCDGS

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Their spokesmen have said that the unions would only consider strike action if the standard of policing deteriorated to the point where their members' safety was affected. It would not therefore be sympathy action.

An interesting matter to consider. Are the rail unions now the sole arbiter of the standard of policing by the British Transport Police and it would be interesting to hear from one of "legal eagles" on the website to expand fully upon that particular matter to which you allude above.
 
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JohnR

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An interesting matter to consider. Are the rail unions now the sole arbiter of the standard of policing by the British Transport Police and it would be interesting to hear from one of "legal eagles" on the website to expand fully upon that particular matter to which you allude above.

I cant think of anything which has more universally been condemned than this proposal. You have the other political parties (no surprise there), the TOCs, the Rail Unions, the BTP, the BTP Federation, RailFuture Scotland, Passenger Focus, and probably some others I've forgotten. You might think this would make some people pause for consideration.
 
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I cant think of anything which has more universally been condemned than this proposal. You have the other political parties (no surprise there), the TOCs, the Rail Unions, the BTP, the BTP Federation, RailFuture Scotland, Passenger Focus, and probably some others I've forgotten. You might think this would make some people pause for consideration.

but Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is the SNP we are talking about a protest party now being faced with actually having to deliver
 

380101

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I do wonder if some people live in an alternative reality. What "mass exodus"?

I was speaking to my brother in law yesterday, who is a policeman in Police Scotland, and a mass exodus is a long way from what is happening.

Why make stuff up?

I'm not making stuff up. If over 800(doesn't include retirees) officers leaving (resigning) since its inception isn't bad news I don't know what is! Note that 800 officers is equivalent to the whole of the former Northern Constabulary! Just to add I'm one of them along with a fair few other guys at my depot.

My Brother and his partner are also serving officers in PS and I can assure you that if they could afford to leave the force they would, as would alot of their colleagues.

Moral is at an all time low and the SNP'S consistent denial of any problems within the force is working to make the job intolerable for a vast majority of the hard working officers within PS.
 
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I'm not making stuff up. If over 800(doesn't include retirees) officers leaving (resigning) since its inception isn't bad news I don't know what is! Note that 800 officers is equivalent to the whole of the former Northern Constabulary! Just to add I'm one of them along with a fair few other guys at my depot.

My Brother and his partner are also serving officers in PS and I can assure you that if they could afford to leave the force they would, as would alot of their colleagues.

Moral is at an all time low and the SNP'S consistent denial of any problems within the force is working.

If i were the Chief Officer or a rural AUs /NZ force or a high up in the RCMP , i'd be having thoughts about a way to facilitate transfers ... ( much the same as various UK and Aus ambulance services have had schemes to facilitate recruitment from the 'other' country )
 

oldman

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An interesting matter to consider. Are the rail unions now the sole arbiter of the standard of policing by the British Transport Police and it would be interesting to hear from one of "legal eagles" on the website to expand fully upon that particular matter to which you allude above.

No one, myself included, has suggested that the unions are or should be the 'sole arbitors' of railway policing standards.
 

XC90

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So the merger with Police Scotland has been agreed by the Scottish Government.

Thoughts?
 

R4_GRN

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Well our dear leader does not have a good reputation with merging the Scottish police. The screwup with the VAT regulations cost the police dear. I wonder if the TP budget once merged will also be liable for VAT?
 

GaryMcEwan

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Absolutely ridiculous. Although this is the SNP we're talking about. What next for the SNP? To merge the MOD Police into Police Scotland?
 

380101

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So the merger with Police Scotland has been agreed by the Scottish Government.

Thoughts?

It's only been passed at committee stage. Still a few hurdles to jump over before it's a done deal. I suspect the Green Party will side with the SNP and it will pass the chamber vote. The other 3 parties are likely to vote against it as it's a contentious issue given that most of the industry stakeholders are against it. Also the ScotGov have ignored 2 of the 3 options proposed by BTP.
 

47271

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Here's the story from The Scotsman. Interesting that it's been lifted straight from the PA, I thought that it looked a bit factual and balanced. :lol:

Personally I think this one is storing up trouble for the SNP and they'd have been well advised to focus on something else, but we'll see...

Holyrood committee supports plans to merge transport police with national force

A Holyrood committee has backed plans to merge British Transport Police in Scotland with the national force - despite Tory and Labour MSPs refusing to back the proposal.

A majority of members of the Scottish Parliament's Justice Committee said they believe the integration of BTP into Police Scotland would provide a "more integrated and effective approach" to policing in Scotland."

But three Conservative MSPs, committee convener Margaret Mitchell and fellow Tories Oliver Mundell and Douglas Ross, as well as Labour's Mary Fee all dissented from this statement.

Ms Mitchell said: "The committee did not arrive at a unanimous position on the Bill's general principles with some members backing an alternative approach."

After the 2016 Scotland Act extended new powers to Holyrood, ministers have put forward legislation to give power over railway policing to Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority (SPA) watchdog.

The Railway Police (Scotland) Bill also requires the SPA and Chief Constable to have regular contact with train operators on rail policing matters.

But BTP deputy chief constable Adrian Hancock has told MSPs the plans could create an unnecessary border for officers policing the railways, while unions have warned the move could lead to big delays for travellers,

Meanwhile the RMT, the union representing transport workers, told the committee it had not ruled out taking industrial action if the plan goes ahead.

Ms Mitchell said MSPs had " heard a variety of opinions about the best approach for railway policing in Scotland now that has been devolved to the Scottish Parliament", adding that much of the evidence they had heard "r aised concerns about integration".

However, she said the committee had made a " number of clear recommendations to ensure that the same level of service that the travelling public currently enjoys is maintained" if the merger goes ahead.

She stated: " These include the recommendations that strong procedures should be in place to manage cross-border issues, such as the powers of officers to carry out their duties as they travel between Scotland and England.

"Also that officers must be clear on operational issues such as the use of Tasers and the powers of arrest. All members agree that protecting the travelling public is of the utmost importance."

Currently, only authorised firearms officers within Police Scotland can carry Tasers whereas BTP has Taser-trained officers who are not firearms officers.

Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Higgins of Police Scotland told the committee that "should integration occur, one of the first things that I will have to do is to assess the threat in the wider rail network and see whether it is still appropriate, in terms of the wider Police Scotland threat assessment, to continue that practice".

Other recommendations from the committee include a commitment to an ongoing, visible police presence on the rail work, and a guarantee that the employment conditions of BTP officers and staff will not suffer as a result of the merger.

Labour's justice spokeswoman Claire Baker accused the Scottish Government of "railroading" through the proposal.

She said: "The committee has heard numerous concerns from BTP, staff, unions and railway providers. There are clear operational and serious financial questions that remain unanswered by the Government.

"At a time when the SPA is facing a crisis of leadership and significant budget pressures, integrating BTP with Police Scotland could potentially introduce a level of risk to transport policing which fails to put passengers first.

"We already have a transport system that works and serves us well in Scotland but this Bill risks that."

A Scottish Government spokesman said: " The Scottish Government welcomes the committee's backing for our plans to integrate the British Transport Police in Scotland into Police Scotland, which will ensure that railway policing in Scotland is more accountable, through the Chief Constable and the Scottish Police Authority.

"We share the committee's view that the safety of the travelling public is of the utmost importance, and welcome the constructive and helpful recommendations the committee has made on delivering a seamless transfer of responsibility.

"We will give these careful consideration and provide a full response to the committee's report in due course."

Copyright (c) Press Association Ltd. 2017, All Rights Reserved.
 
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IanXC

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Does anyone know what the 3 options proposed by the BTP were?
 

fgwrich

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Some news coming out of the BTP Fed tonight.

<(

Our response to the Railway Policing Bill (Scotland) Bill.
We are disappointed and frustrated that the Bill has been passed, but it’s not surprising. From the outset, it was clear full integration was the sole focus of debates in Parliament, with other options being quickly dismissed with little, if any, discussion.
It is our view that this decision has been taken despite there being little evidence as to the need for integration and the benefits to the travelling public. We don’t believe, as suggested, that this is about improving policing on the railway or for railway policing to be more accountable to the Scottish public.
It is a sad day when politicians interfere with policing in this manner especially at a time when the country faces such significant threats. BTP Federation implored the Scottish Government to suspend such a decision until the finer detail could be worked through, the cost to the taxpayer recognised and any the risk to the railway network and cross-border policing minimised. This request fell on deaf ears and the SNP continued with what can be only be described as an ideology around independence.
To our colleagues in BTP Scotland, we are sorry that it has come to this. We tried our utmost to put forward a well-evidenced debate, but it has ultimately been ignored.
Our job now is to secure the best possible outcome for BTP Scotland officers. This is a role we take seriously and we will continue engage fully in the process, offering advice and sharing our experience. We will hold Ministers to the triple-lock guarantee they have given our officers on jobs, pay and pensions.
Despite facing an uncertain personal future, our members remain committed to the travelling public and rail staff in Scotland and will continue to proudly police the network in the dedicated way they always have.
Lastly, we would like to thank all those who listened and supported us and our officers, including the various unions, Train Operating Companies and politicians who raised our concerns throughout the process.

Farewell BTP Scotland, a sad day for the BTP and potentially raises more questions than answered.
 

yorkie

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The separatists are very quiet about this; they know this is madness but don't want to admit it.
 

skyhigh

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As I work for the BTP I need to be thoughtful as to what I post online, but I have strong feelings on this - as do most of my colleagues. Very sorry that it looks like we're indeed going to be saying goodbye to D division.
 

GusB

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The separatists are very quiet about this; they know this is madness but don't want to admit it.

As someone who favours independence, I suppose that makes me a "separatist". I have no problem with admitting that I think this is a bad idea. I also completely disagree with having a single Scottish police force/service.
 

47271

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Everyone who understands railway policing thinks that it's a bad idea (anyone who disagrees, now's your chance, you know who you are), so it's an interesting one in terms of its political impact.

Of course it doesn't register in the mainstream of political commentary, but what we'll never know is the extent to which its obvious failure of commonsense has contributed to loss of support for the SNP. Think about some of the tiny majorities either way at the General Election.

Even if it made less than 1% of voters think again, even for a moment, that could have lost them a seat.
 

the sniper

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I hoped the election result and heightened terrorist threat might wake up these bullheaded, flag waving fools in the SNP, but sadly it seems that the BTP in Scotland will now be consumed by their failed project, the SNP Police...

If nothing else I hope the TOCs and NR can get out of paying for this 'service', though Scotrail and NR Scotland have no chance of being allowed to do that.
 

dcsprior

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As someone who favours independence, I suppose that makes me a "separatist". I have no problem with admitting that I think this is a bad idea. I also completely disagree with having a single Scottish police force/service.
As another person who is by this logic a 'separatist' I thought a single police force was a good idea: every pound spent on duplicating back-office functions and senior staff across multiple forces is a pound not spent on the front line.

However, when it was actually implemented it doesn't seem to have gone well, not by any stretch. I therefore think it'd have been wise to pause and ensure lessons are learned from the mergers of the territorial forces before merging in the Scottish part of the BTP.

I guess from the PoV of the Scottish Government, the problem with the current system is that they're held accountable for policing in Scotland (incl BTP) but there's no reporting line from the BTP to the Scottish Government.

Out of interest, do people whi think what's happening is a bad idea (is most/all who've commented here) think it would've been better to split out the Scottish part of the BTP but not merge it with the rest of Police Scotland?

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Railops

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As has been said if they had been called STP instead of BTP there wouldn't be a problem. Sturgeon just hates the rest of the UK with a passion and has allowed her personal feelings to cloud her judgement, despicable woman running a despicable party. Self serving was invented for her.
 
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47271

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Out of interest, do people whi think what's happening is a bad idea (is most/all who've commented here) think it would've been better to split out the Scottish part of the BTP but not merge it with the rest of Police Scotland?

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

In my view it would have been slightly better in that railway policing would have been less likely to be sucked into the black hole that is shortage of resource at Police Scotland. Overstretch of the main force is why they're doing it, so we can assume that a reduction in railway coverage will be the result.

Better still to leave it alone.
 

Railsigns

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Sturgeon just hates the rest of the UK with a passion and has allowed her personal feelings to cloud her judgement, despicable woman running a despicable party. Self serving was invented for her.

Why did you switch, mid-sentence, to describing Theresa May?
 

shotts56

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As has been said if they had been called STP instead of BTP there wouldn't be a problem. Sturgeon just hates the rest of the UK with a passion and has allowed her personal feelings to cloud her judgement, despicable woman running a despicable party. Self serving was invented for her.

Why don't you stop hiding your feelings and say what you really mean ?

:D
 

takno

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As has been said if they had been called STP instead of BTP there wouldn't be a problem. Sturgeon just hates the rest of the UK with a passion and has allowed her personal feelings to cloud her judgement, despicable woman running a despicable party. Self serving was invented for her.

I don't believe this is the case at all. The SNP are absolutely wedded to the Strathclyde takeover of all policing in Scotland, and this is more important to them than simple nationalism. They have been running the Scottish Government for 10 years, and that has involved a lot more than just espousing independence. She isn't despicable and neither is the party, they just aren't terribly good at running Scotland.
 

R4_GRN

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Does anyone know if that means the transport police will lose some of their budget to the VAT man as the amalgamation of the Scottish police forces did?
 

Railops

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She isn't despicable and neither is the party.

You're entitled to your opinion the same as me, I think she's a horrible woman who would kill her granny to gain a political advantage.
 

takno

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You're entitled to your opinion the same as me, I think she's a horrible woman who would kill her granny to gain a political advantage.
You appear to trade more in trolling and abuse than opinions to be honest, and seem to be a very difficult position as regards calling other people horrible.
 

tspaul26

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From post no. 42:

Labour's justice spokeswoman Claire Baker accused the Scottish Government of "railroading" through the proposal.

And people say that Scottish Labour has no sense of humour...
 
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