Poll. New Deckers of 2016 - Your Thoughts

[fgwrich]

Travelling through Oxford this afternoon, I had the choice and luxury of one of Stagecoach's new 66 plate Enviro 400 MMCs. I later used one of Oxford's Streetdecks and actually found myself being disappointed with it. Whether or not it was down to Oxford's specification or a feeling that Wrights have dropped the quality ball with these I don't know, but it's the first time I think I've ever actually felt disappointed by a Wrights Product.

So, what are your thoughts on this years round of newer deckers? Have ADL Finally found a winner and stolen a march on Wright's at last, or is the Streetdeck still holding Wrights respectable lead in quality? For completeness I've included the Optare Metrodecker in this as well, although I found Reading's demonstrator incredibly uninspiring.

1. Alexander Dennis Enviro 400
   
2. Wrightbus Streetdeck
   
3. Optare's Metrodecker

 

[Bungle965]

Travelling through Oxford this afternoon, I had the choice and luxury of one of Stagecoach's new 66 plate Enviro 400 MMCs. I later used one of Oxford's Streetdecks and actually found myself being disappointed with it. Whether or not it was down to Oxford's specification or a feeling that Wrights have dropped the quality ball with these I don't know, but it's the first time I think I've ever actually felt disappointed by a Wrights Product.

So, what are your thoughts on this years round of newer deckers? Have ADL Finally found a winner and stolen a march on Wright's at last, or is the Streetdeck still holding Wrights respectable lead in quality? For completeness I've included the Optare Metrodecker in this as well, although I found Reading's demonstrator incredibly uninspiring.

1. Alexander Dennis Enviro 400
   
2. Wrightbus Streetdeck
   
3. Optare's Metrodecker

The Optare Metrodecker looks like it might be a flop for Optare, I don`t think any company has ordered one yet.
Sam

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Travelling through Oxford this afternoon, I had the choice and luxury of one of Stagecoach's new 66 plate Enviro 400 MMCs. I later used one of Oxford's Streetdecks and actually found myself being disappointed with it. Whether or not it was down to Oxford's specification or a feeling that Wrights have dropped the quality ball with these I don't know, but it's the first time I think I've ever actually felt disappointed by a Wrights Product.

So, what are your thoughts on this years round of newer deckers? Have ADL Finally found a winner and stolen a march on Wright's at last, or is the Streetdeck still holding Wrights respectable lead in quality? For completeness I've included the Optare Metrodecker in this as well, although I found Reading's demonstrator incredibly uninspiring.

1. Alexander Dennis Enviro 400
   
2. Wrightbus Streetdeck
   
3. Optare's Metrodecker

Can't speak of the Optare but concur with your impressions. The Streetdeck isn't a bad vehicle but the e400mmc seems to be a step ahead IMHO.

 

[GusB]

Double-deck operations in my local area are but a dim and distant memory, so I'm unlikely to travel on any of them unless I venture further afield.

As far as the external styling is concerned, I think both of the recent ADL E400 variants (MMC and City) have the edge over the others, although I can't make up my mind which one I prefer.

The Metrodecker isn't ugly, but it doesn't stand out in any way.The Optare Rapta was a fine-looking design, but sadly it didn't seem to get off the drawing board.

As for the StreetDeck... I've never been a huge fan of Wright's 'deckers anyway, but what were they thinking?

 

[Robertj21a]

The E400 MMCs are a big step forward - just at the time that Wrights Streetdeck has struggled to get past numerous problems that should have been sorted out on the production line.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The thing for me with ADL is that when new they can be quite nice. Give them a year and IMO their horrid plus they still havnt sorted out cheep grab poll fittings and rattly bits to my satisfaction and the reliabilitty isnt what IMO it should be. The streetdeck isnt admitedly brilliant but I bet it will last a good bit better than the Inviro.

The Metrodecker could be good I think if someone would give it a chance.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Optare Metrodecker looks like it might be a flop for Optare, I don't think any company has ordered one yet.

Go North East have had one on trial for ages now, but with no sign of one being ordered. It's a shame as it actually looks a half-decent bus.

I'd also go with the E400 MMC, the ones in Newcastle with Stagecoach seem a step up on everything else in the city, although the e-leather high-back seats that Stagecoach have switched to does help with the feel of the bus. It just feels better built than the original E400s that Stagecoach have up here, although in fairness they are ten years old now.

The Streetdeck...meh. It's not a bad bus, the examples with Go North East with the tables and with Transdev Harrogate on the 36 show it can be a good bus with the right spec. I just can't get away with how small the windows are. It feels claustrophobic on the top deck.

 

[J-2739]

In my local area, we have brand new E400 MMCs with Stagecoach leather seats, Wi-Fi, and USB ports. They are so quiet, and bright and airy inside, so that gets my vote!

The closest I've ever been on a Wright vehicle is the ones down in London. They're okay, but a little cramped at the bottom. I appreciate them for being different to the E400s

Meanwhile, the new Optare Metrodecker just looks like an ugly version of the old E400.

 

[the101]

Transdev's aren't StreetDecks, so...

ADL really raised the bar with the MMC range and it will also be interesting to see how the CNG-fuelled Scania-based examples go on in Nottingham and Reading. Wrights have had problems with the StreetDeck (and the StreetLite before it) because the step up from building bodies to producing complete vehicles was underestimated.

The Metrodecker is actually a fine product that was rushed through the design phase, and as a result had to be substantially reworked in the meantime. The problem now is that it's at risk of becoming a white elephant and doing serious damage to Optate's likelihood of survival if/when the Indians lose interest. It is currently having yet more redesign work done, which is perhaps why no orders have yet been announced. One positive is that Optare has finally acknowledged that an electric bus needs to be able to do a full day's work on one charge, and is abandoning its 'lunchtime charge' strategy of before. That should ensure that the Metrodecker EV sells in London, eventually.

 

[Statto]

The Streetdecks are quite ugly looking, big problem for me is the wide panelling in the corners between the windows on the front upperdeck of the Streetdeck.

The MMCs are good, Stagecoach have a few mainly on the 14/82/86/86C in the Liverpool area quite nice fitted out, i find them more comfortable than the Arriva Enviro 400s & the E400s are only a couple of years old..

 

[urpert]

I have something of a soft spot for the MCV Evoseti that has started to appear in considerable numbers in this part of London. It's not flash but a tidy design that reminds me of the very first Plaxton Presidents (the Metroline ones with ribbon glazing).

 

[nerd]

The Streetdeck...meh. It's not a bad bus, the examples with Go North East with the tables and with Transdev Harrogate on the 36 show it can be a good bus with the right spec. I just can't get away with how small the windows are. It feels claustrophobic on the top deck.

smaller windows = less glass = less weight = less fuel consumption and better acceleration.

The Transdev vehicles on the service 36 and Coastliner are Eclipse Gemini 3 models with Streetdeck styling and Volvo B5LH/B5TL mechanics -as too are First's Vantage buses on the Leigh busway.

Notable that the Vantage services have proved much more popular than Stagecoach's counterpart X34 services along the equivalent Leigh route; which use high-spec Enviro 400 MMC units.

 

[Strathclyder]

Since the E400MMC has been the only one of the three to have been purchased by any of my local operators (First Glasgow & Stagecoach Western, both opting for the integral chassis) and therefore the only one I've had a chance to ride on, it gets my vote by default. It's possibly the best out of the three from a design/styling perspective, much improved over the original E400. Passenger comfort overall is also much improved over the 'classic' design, but neither are as good as a B7TL/B9TL-bodied Gemini (as far as I'm concerned anyway lol).

First Glasgow (yes, this batch was new in late 2015, but 2016 was their first full year in service):

Stagecoach Western:

 

[Bungle965]

The Wright StreetDeck in my opinion is not the best looking bus in the world, the MMC Enviro's look far better compared to them, however I think some of the bus liveries do not do the look of it any favours, a recent example of this is the new batch that Arriva Merseyside have got it makes the front of the bus look like some sort of bug.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dmc1947/31595659302/in/pool-2591207@N24/
However if there was a example that makes the bus look more appealing it would be the batch that Lothian bought for their sightseeing subsides.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/busmanscotland/22825941058/in/photolist-Phggvx-AM3V2U-NH9CcA-o9eq9Q-92o1S3-96zGyJ-b5zNKc-byPQCJ-x45Psh-oxmaCt-NbB89p-PcLB8r-P7gwSm-N2LKdz-MN1WaR-ML442W-Mt1tiD-N5jUKh-MXabG5-MaGgxH-MaG4wP-MFaFds-MWhwyS-N1ysr1-MQ9Ksj-MVjsE5-NE5Tw8-NAU2MY-NDMywZ-NsM3t8-N6H7sv-Mgvj8P-MLiFkW-MFPZbq-MTwepb-MWWWrj-MYzBxB-LZytxk-LZyrWf-MPpYK6-LZkZWo-MTMUUs-MNug6L-MneRkw-LMxSTc-MySbP5-MgWkRq-MuG4qk-MBqesi-LAxKRy/
Sam

 

[hassaanhc]

I much prefer the E400 MMC. They are far better looking than the Streetdeck/Gemini 3, Metrodecker, and Evoseti. The ones that I use regularly, Stagecoach London 10308-10332 at Barking, are very smooth and comfortable. The windows are also larger than in the old E400, whereas Wright went for much smaller windows upstairs. At least the Streetdeck/Gemini 3 still looks mostly like a quality vehicle, despite the big fat pillar upstairs, unlike the Metrodecker or Evoseti.

 

[507021]

The Enviro400 is in my view the best looking of the three, and I think it's better to travel on than the StreetDeck which I'm not really a fan of. I much preferred the first design for the StreetDeck (and Gemini3), the current one looks awful. It'll be an interesting comparison to see how Arriva NW's Wright Gemini3 hybrids compare to Stagecoach MCSL's Enviro400s though in terms of ride quality though.

I haven't been on a MetroDecker yet, so it would be unfair for me to judge it on anything other than the design.

 

[hassaanhc]

The closest I've ever been on a Wright vehicle is the ones down in London. They're okay, but a little cramped at the bottom. I appreciate them for being different to the E400s

I've always found the Gemini 2 cramped, especially the B9TL version, and they make dwell times worse when loaded. The aisle and staircase feel so narrow, and the stairs are steep as well. The wheelchair space is tiny and the full height handrail lines up perfectly with the seats opposite, rather than being offset (the B5LH layout has one less rows of seats, and the DB300 version has the exit door further forward, which help). Then the curved ceiling makes it feel lower than it actually is.

 

[GusB]

How do double-decks cope with the much smaller engines that they're fitted with these days? I'm trying to remember the last time I travelled on one, but it was probably a Trident or a B7TL of around 2000-2001 vintage. Even then, the engines were getting smaller.

 

[the101]

How do double-decks cope with the much smaller engines that they're fitted with these days? I'm trying to remember the last time I travelled on one, but it was probably a Trident or a B7TL of around 2000-2001 vintage. Even then, the engines were getting smaller.

The power and torque levels of the small Daimler and Volvo engines in some current double-deckers are not massively different to the bigger units of previous generations (the B9TL excepted, although that was massive overkill for city work), so there appears to have been few problems with performance.

The exhaust unit needs to be at a high temperature at Euro 6 if it is to function properly. Exhausts are largely sized appropriate to the engine, so a small power unit working hard ensures that the temperature is where it needs to be. Scania reckons that the nine-litre engine that it uses at Euro 6 generates enough heat in the exhaust, but I imagine that it does so by not working at its optimum efficiency. Certainly Scanias cannot match the current crop of Daimler- or Volvo-engined double-deckers for fuel efficiency.

Cummins is now talking of replacing the six-cylinder ISB6.7 with the four-cylinder ISB4.5 in double-deck applications, as the latter has had a power and torque boost at Euro 6c. A 'seed' vehicle already exists and is under testing; what it is and where it is I don't know, but presumably it is as Millbrook.

 

[sk688]

Up In harrow , we got StreetDecks and Gemini 3s as the new buses

They are both horrible . The Streetdecks rattle a lot and are already starting to look worn , despite being 16 plate and under the excellent maintenance scheme of Arriva Lomdon

The Gemini 3s look and sound bad , compared to the B9TL Gemini 2s we had before , but are quieter

The e400 Mmc is the best out of all , but not without its faults either

 

[hassaanhc]

Up In harrow , we got StreetDecks and Gemini 3s as the new buses

They are both horrible . The Streetdecks rattle a lot and are already starting to look worn , despite being 16 plate and under the excellent maintenance scheme of Arriva Lomdon

The Gemini 3s look and sound bad , compared to the B9TL Gemini 2s we had before , but are quieter

The e400 Mmc is the best out of all , but not without its faults either

Both B5LHs and B5TLs are meant to make that ticking noise on acceleration! think it is the turbo.

 

[hassaanhc]

How do double-decks cope with the much smaller engines that they're fitted with these days? I'm trying to remember the last time I travelled on one, but it was probably a Trident or a B7TL of around 2000-2001 vintage. Even then, the engines were getting smaller.

I remember Euro 2-3 Tridents and B7TLs being atrocious on hills! Things got much better with the Euro 4 onwards E400, as well as the B9TL, but I've been disappointed by how the Scania N94UD and N230UD perform on hills, as they're very fast on the flat when floored. B5LH is also good, but the very short gears on the I-shift gearbox let it down especially if you start on a hill. The Streetdeck (Mercedes engined version of Gemini 3) seemed to do well on the hilly Route 486 (North Greenwich to Bexleyheath).