Poll: Potential General Election: who are you voting for?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlterEgo, 3 Sep 2019.

Potential October GE: Who will you vote for?

  1. Conservative

    84 vote(s)
    19.1%
  2. Labour

    129 vote(s)
    29.4%
  3. SNP

    29 vote(s)
    6.6%
  4. Plaid Cymru

    4 vote(s)
    0.9%
  5. Lib Dems

    130 vote(s)
    29.6%
  6. TIG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sinn Fein

    2 vote(s)
    0.5%
  9. UUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. SDLP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Green Party (or any local Green affiliate)

    14 vote(s)
    3.2%
  12. Other independent or minor party (please state!)

    3 vote(s)
    0.7%
  13. Spoiled ballot

    7 vote(s)
    1.6%
  14. Not voting

    13 vote(s)
    3.0%
  15. Brexit Party

    24 vote(s)
    5.5%
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  1. muddythefish

    muddythefish On Moderation

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    For the first time I'll be voting tactically - which will probably be Labour in my area. I'm not bothered who is in No 10 as long as it is not the Conservative party. The last 10 years under them have been hell - first, they inflicted an unnecessary and socially divisive austerity programme on the people who could least afford it and then caused the biggest national crisis since Suez by calling the EU referendum, which has split the nation, regions, communities, and families, and will continue to do so for many, many years. They deserve to be punished.
     
  2. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    There are other political parties, and given that all bets are off in this election there's probably little harm in actually voting for one of the others.

    If enough people voted with how they feel that the policies sit with them, rather than thinking that they are X or y so should support a or b, you could see other parties doing better than they have in the past. Possibly a lot better.
     
  3. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    The staff at the Penzance branch will have quite the commute, starting east of Andover! :D
     
  4. 433N

    433N Member

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    I find it depressing that anyone would vote Conservative.

    They have run down the NHS to current levels where waiting times are a joke and normalised the use of food banks. I mean, why would anybody vote for such a poor social record as that ?

    In terms of their glorious economic policy, productivity (intimately linked to economic health) has flatlined since 2010 and we lag most other developed countries, the gap between rich and poor has widened in the same time period and many are worse off than 10 years ago.

    It takes a certain amount of brassneck for the Conservatives even to consider contesting this election with that record ; clearly proven unfit to govern.

    What is the point of a government, or indeed democracy, if people become poorer and their lives become harder ?
     
  5. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    That could perhaps be put down to a combination of global circumstances and poor decision making by the UK government.

    But to have a flagship policy that all impartial experts agree destroys economic value for no discernable benefit takes a whole new level of incompetence.
     
  6. Pyreneenguy

    Pyreneenguy Member

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    You and me, both !

    Who votes for this "nasty party' ? The huge majority are the over 55's. Those that managed to buy a house when, in real terms, they cost a quarter of what they cost today. Many became scum private land-lords buying to let, pricing even the most modest property well above the means of an average hard working couple.
    Their interests are best served by the Conservatives. Not for them the problem of making ends meet, they probably have a decent private pension, take two or three holidays abroad each year, or even bought a place in France or Spain. These inactives are deciding the future for the hard-working younger generation. I'm not saying they didn't work hard to enjoy the fruits of their labour but it's their Little Britain attitude that is seeing the country leaving the E.U after 40 years of close cooperation
    and mutual benefit.

    Don't believe me ? Take a look at Yougov statistics :

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...06/13/how-britain-voted-2017-general-election

    70% of the over 70's voted Conservative in the 2017 General Election !
     
  7. JaMa9

    JaMa9 Member

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    Well BJ is completely toxic and he's got a cabinet of toxic people who should be no where near the Cabinet. If you think Johnson is going to get a sane Brexit outcome, you are out of your mind. It's not possible. He doesn't have a realistic strategy.

    The Conservative Party has already been purged and is now imbalanced. If it gets a large majority it will be absolutely awful for the country, it will be filled with MPs who are of the militant, submissive or sycophantic variety holding views that are not even remotely approaching the balance of opinion in the country.

    As for democracy, the answer to protecting democracy is not Boris Johnson. He is a symbol for everything that is breaking our democracy and eroding trust in the system.
     
  8. jfollows

    jfollows Member

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    I'm over 55 and I've been a landlord, but I'm voting Labour this time.

    I was a member of the same (Oxford University) Conservative Association as both Theresa May (before me) and Boris Johnson (after me) but the values of the Conservative Party then and now are different, and I've not voted Conservative since 1992.

    My MP is Esther McVey and it would give me great pleasure to see her off. I'm in about the 100th. safest seat in the country so it's not likely, but I live in hope.

    I would rather we had an old Trot who isn't fit to run a political party as our next Prime Minister, better than a lying, cowardly fantasist that we currently have.

    LibDems insult me by saying they won't support a minority Labour government when we all know that they'll leap at the chance. Just as David Cameron said he'd stick around whatever the outcome of the referendum in 2016 and we knew he was lying then too.

    Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Labour comes a better second in Tatton in a few weeks, and I'll be adding to their vote.
     
  9. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    You imply this will be the first time you will have voted Labour. You haven't voted Conservative since 1992.

    Just out of interest, which way have you voted since 1992?
     
  10. jfollows

    jfollows Member

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    I have never voted Labour and, before 2016, would confidently have stated that I never would. I have generally voted LibDem since 1992, but I voted Independent in the 2017 General Election.

    I meant to say: LibDems annoyed me in 2017 by calling for a second referendum then which I just felt was silly, so they didn't get my vote then either. They seem to get under my skin easily!
     
  11. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    Thanks for that. I have rung the changes over the years voting Tory, Labour and LibDem according to their stated intentions at the time, not that any of them have delivered to that extent.

    On this occasion I will be voting Tory. No matter how bad Brexit may appear, there is one worse outcome and that is a (current) Labour government.
     
  12. jfollows

    jfollows Member

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    Also, in follow-on to my earlier comments, I'm primarily voting "tactically" against Esther McVey than for Labour, and even though Tatton is a safe seat it contains a good number of people who traditionally vote Labour and who usually see Labour into second place. As it happens, my preferred outcome would be a minority Labour government, so I'm not really voting "against" my preferred outcome by voting Labour either.
     
  13. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    More likely to come from the Treneere estate, which has average incomes among the lowest 1% of the UK population - the slightly wider area is 'only' amongst the lowest 3% of deprivation, though. At £15 p.h. the queues for jobs would stretch to St Ives. Mind you, with a Big Mac then costing £9.99 they wouldn't be looking for any additional staff!
     
  14. O8yityityit

    O8yityityit Member

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    23 Oct 2019
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    Cheshire
    So unless the characteristics of the forum have changed significantly it's not really going to predict much.
    Good discussion thread though. Politics is banned on certain other railway forums because they can't remain civil.
     
  15. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Scotland
    More interestingly for me were (in no particular order):
    • The more educated you are, the more likely you are to vote Labour; which ties into
    • Labour is no longer the party of the working class v the Conservatives being the party of the upper class
    • Despite the 'Corbyn bump', a significantly smaller percentage of younger voters actually turned out than their older peers
    • The FT is the paper of choice for a higher percentage of Progressive (Lab + Lib Dem) voters than Conservative
     
  16. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    I do agree with your point, that McDonalds isn't a career ambition, and if you don't have the neccessary skill set, or have no ambition to do anything else. Then yes something is wrong.
    It should be the lowest paid job, because there is no skill set.
    But that doesn't mean it should be slave labour either, not all workers there are failures in life, they could be students etc wanting a part time job to supplement their maintenance loan etc.
     
  17. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    Where I am the Conservative government has done a lot of improvements and significantly helped the local economy undoing the damage Labour did.

    In other areas however that is not the case and I can understand why people would never vote Conservative.
     
  18. muddythefish

    muddythefish On Moderation

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    Jeffrey Archer, writing in the Telegraph last year, said: "I was travelling through the north west recently, where i was giving a speech at a school, and as I looked out of the window it did make me think I'd vote for Corbyn if I lived up here".

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-archer-vote-north-west-england-a8540231.html

    It does make you wonder why people in certain areas would contemplate voting Conservative when it is clearly not in their interests to do so.
     
  19. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    On the subject of wages, the Living Wage Foundation's new calculations are that a minimum of £9.30 nationally and an enhanced rate of £10.75 in Greater London should apply. At least in the case of the £9.30 rate, I think this should become law in the whole of the UK and the age taper ended so that everyone is entitled to it once they reach 18.

    I really don't accept any of the arguments against this. It's the right thing to do, it's based on sound analysis, and it would have next to no adverse impact on the number of job positions available. Paying people less than this by definition leads to in-work poverty. The government's current wages aren't livable, even though they're calling them a 'Living Wage'.

    No, I don't think so. McDonald's employ a lot of staff, and in some towns and villages there will be few better paid positions on offer with the other nearby employers. I suspect there are quite a sizeable minority people working close to full time or full time in most McDonald's branches.
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2019
  20. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    I wonder if you've ever worked in such a place. I did, some years ago now. Once I'd decided that university wasn't for me, I needed to find a way to earn money for the rent fairly quickly, and I took the first thing that was available. I'll be honest, it was hell, but I don't think I've ever met such a broad cross-section of society in such a small place.

    There were students working part-time to earn some extra income, single parents who didn't necessarily have the skills to do anything else, but due to having to bring up kids, didn't have time to go to college to do night classes in order to gain qualifications. We had people who were straight out of school and didn't quite know what to do with themselves, and there were a couple of older guys who were totally demoralised by the rat-race and were happy to do just enough to keep a roof over their heads. Maybe they had enough to live on through savings/pensions etc - I don't know, and it was none of my business to ask. We also had a few people who appeared to have no hope in life and would never progress, but nevertheless they were happy to graft. Nobody was a slacker - it wasn't tolerated.

    I managed to get onto the first rung of the ladder (training squad as it was then). The responsibilities ramped up fairly quickly; having to maintain the training cards of other staff was the main one, but you had to do this while still making sure that the punter got their burgers in time. It was also seen as the next step up to FM (Floor Manager) and there was a booklet handed out which was full of technical data concerning cooking time, yields etc. I finally cracked after seeing a fellow team member who clearly had learning difficulties getting fired because he got flustered when dealing with customers; on the grill he was absolutely fine and he was an absolutely diamond bloke that got everything right every time when given the appropriate task.

    Not everyone can be a high-flyer. Not everyone wants to be a high-flyer. Some folks just get to the stage where they're happy enough to get by and get their kicks outside of work. It doesn't matter what job you do, if you work hard enough you should be able to at least be able to afford to keep a roof over your head and have a small amount left over to save or just squander on a few pints in the pub. The idea that people deserve low pay because they don't apply themselves is nonsensical.
     
  21. 433N

    433N Member

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    This is a national election on national issues ; local issues are for local government.

    Anyone contemplating voting Tory should ask themselves what the Tories have done in the last 9 years of government that has been so great - that is the track record by which they should be judged. Strange that under cheerleading, positivity-whirlpool Johnson, the only reason people seem to be able to find to vote Tory is that they hate Corbyn (and an assumption on how Britain would be under a government of his). Sums up how good the Tories really are.
     
  22. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Absolutely this. I can happily accept that someone who works at McDonalds without any responsibility beyond serving customers or preparing food is only going to attract the minimum wage. My problem lies with that minimum wage not being sufficient to allow someone to live on. As you point out the Living Wage Foundation have determined that outside of London the rate should be £9.30 (compared to £8.21 for the National "Living Wage", £7.70 for 21 - 24 year olds and £6.15 for 18 - 20 year olds).

    It's based on what it actually costs to live in the UK today and as with you I can't see any justification for not setting that as our base rate of pay. I don't think it's a particularly outrageous figure. And if a company can afford to pay its staff £8.21 or £7.70 or £6.15 per hour but couldn't afford the extra to go to £9.30 without going broke then I'm not sure that that company would be long for this world anyway...

    Plus, added bonus, it would help bring down Government spending on welfare benefits as those who are in work and claiming benefits (which is an awful lot of people) would have higher incomes which would reduce their entitlement to benefits (and unless their in a very niche set of circumstances would still leave them better off overall).
     
  23. theblackwatch

    theblackwatch Emeritus Moderator

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    One issue with increasing wages is 'who pays'? At my workplace, the price of some meals in our staff restaurant (which is more of a canteen) has just been increased by 25% - one of the reasons given was the decision by the contractor to pay its staff the living wage, with resultant extra wage bill. So, while the pay of the low paid may well go up, so could their cup of coffee and cake that they buy every day...
     
  24. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    On the other hand, by paying the living wage the contractor will be able to retain staff for longer and/or have a wider choice of applicants for jobs. Staff turnover doesn't come at zero cost.
     
  25. Puffing Devil

    Puffing Devil Established Member

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    I live in a very safe Tory constituency. Lib Dem and Labour are almost a 50/50 split. I think that the LibDems would stand a better chance if Labour stood down, though petty politics suggest that they won't.

    At the moment, Labour will get my tactical vote. This may change if polling changes closest to the day.
     
  26. theblackwatch

    theblackwatch Emeritus Moderator

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    Most of the staff have been there for years!
     
  27. jfollows

    jfollows Member

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    Today's leader in The Times makes a similar point, that "they need to be honest about what they would do in a hung parliament".
     
  28. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    Why should specifically the LibDems clarify what they'd do in the event of a hung Parliament? As far as I'm aware, neither Labour nor the Tories have said what they would do it it was a hung Parliament - and I don't see anyone demanding that they do so.
     
  29. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Although my natural inclination is to support the Lib Dems I do feel they're making rather a mess of things here.

    Firstly the announcement they would revoke Brexit if they got a majority provided ammunition for their opponents, even though such a course of action would be democratic in the event they formed the next government, which is hugely improbable anyway. But a bit like Labour's Brexit policy all that it a bit too complicated to come across in a soundbite. The people in favour of revocation would probably have voted Lib Dem anyway.

    Secondly I believe they should have unilaterally stood aside in seats where the main contenders were a Tory and a moderate pro-remain Labour candidate. The reason not to seems to be a fear of putting off voters in LibDem-Tory marginals who wouldn't want to help Corbyn into power. But the likely outcome is either that the Tories will get a majority or that they will fall short and Labour will be the largest party. Either outcome is horrifying to many. But it's inconceivable that the LibDems would prop up the Tories, so any former moderate Tories who decide to vote LibDem obviously see a Tory government as the worst outcome and therefore should support measures that make it less likely. It would also mean the survival of more centrist voices within Labour.

    Thirdly if they want a bold commitment perhaps they should come out and say they would support Labour but not if Corbyn or one of his close allies was the PM. They seem to mention Corbyn not Labour when they make that sort of statement now, so that may actually be their policy, but it's not clear to the casual observer.
     
  30. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Either Labour or the Tories would be the largest party so it's clear they would want to form a government of some sort. It's pretty much inconceivable that the LibDems would be the largest party so they would have to work with others to achieve what they can of their goals that are deliverable and tolerable to their partners.
     
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