Poll: Potential General Election: who are you voting for?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlterEgo, 3 Sep 2019.

Potential October GE: Who will you vote for?

  1. Conservative

    78 vote(s)
    18.8%
  2. Labour

    115 vote(s)
    27.7%
  3. SNP

    29 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. Plaid Cymru

    4 vote(s)
    1.0%
  5. Lib Dems

    129 vote(s)
    31.1%
  6. TIG

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sinn Fein

    2 vote(s)
    0.5%
  9. UUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. SDLP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Green Party (or any local Green affiliate)

    14 vote(s)
    3.4%
  12. Other independent or minor party (please state!)

    2 vote(s)
    0.5%
  13. Spoiled ballot

    7 vote(s)
    1.7%
  14. Not voting

    11 vote(s)
    2.7%
  15. Brexit Party

    24 vote(s)
    5.8%
  1. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Because Brexitists couldn't agree on what sort of Brexit they wanted. A deal was on the table and ready to go a year ago.

    They've had their chance.
     
  2. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    The referendum result was that we should leave, and we've started the process of leaving. It's been purely domestic political considerations that have prevented the completion of the process.
    The two are not mutually exclusive.
     
  3. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    You mean the deal which was repeatedly voted down by remain parties?

    And for the record, yes, I voted remain.
     
  4. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    Some remain MPs (mainly Conservative) did vote for the deal.
    A lot of Leave MPs did not.

    Essentially, it is wrong for the leave side to criticise the remain side for 'blocking Brexit' when they have also done so.
     
  5. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    Oh, I agree.

    It's just I disagree with statements like "the leave side has had their chance".
     
  6. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I know what the result was. All I did was point out you said the result of the referendum had been implemented when it hasn't, but you won't even concede that.

    On top of that, you also think one of the reasons I've changed my mind on which party to vote for is invalid.

    I think you're very condescending.
     
  7. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    The point I was making was that although the local education authority are implementing the cuts it's a national policy that they are following.

    Of course there will be other matters which I and others will be looking at. However it's fairly typical of MP's to point out that it's not their problem, when the policy which sets the guidance for local councils is set by national government.

    If you'd prefer a different example, how about the NHS vs social care?

    Local government has been limited in what they can do with regards to their budgets, whilst at the same time having to deal with a rapidly adding population which they have to provide a LOT of support for. This then impacts on the ability for the NHS to do what it needs to do, as the level of social care funding means that there's more blocked beds.

    This could be easily fixed by:
    - providing councils with more funding for social care
    - bringing elements of social care inside the NHS and increasing the funding amounts accordingly
    - having planned for the aging population and ensured that there was suitable provision
     
  8. thenorthern

    thenorthern Established Member

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    There is also things which are seen so be national issues but disproportionately affect certain areas. For example my constituency produces more beer than any other constituency so when the Beer Tax Escalator was scrapped it was very popular as it meant more people drinking Beer and thus more produced and therefore more jobs in the area. Beer Duty however would to many be seen as a national issue.

    Its the same with Nuclear Power Corbyn isn't very popular in West Cumbria around Sellafield because of his opposition to nuclear power again seen as a national issue but in the end result was in 2017 the area voted Conservative for the first time since 1931.
     
  9. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    If all the Brexitist MPs had voted for May's deal, it would have been passed. They had the numbers. So Brexitists have had their chance.
     
  10. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I know full well what's happened, so I'll rephrase it for you.

    I disagree with people saying "oh, they've had their chance" as if the result is now irrelevant because of the amount of time that's passed since the referendum.
     
  11. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    They've had three years to get Brexit done and haven't done it. So if someone else (say, the LibDems) stand on a ticket of unilaterally revoking Article 50, it isn't "undemocratic".
     
  12. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    Oh for goodness sake, I've already gone over this.

    As najaB was unable to do so, I'm now asking you to provide proof I said "I'm not voting for the Liberal Democrats because I think their Brexit policy is undemocratic".
     
  13. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    This heavily implies you consider it "undemocratic", as you borrow heavily from the Brexitist rhetoric that 17m people will be "ignored".

    Unilaterally revoking A50 doesn't ignore Brexitists, any more than implementing A50 ignored the views of 16m Remain voters. Brexitists have had ample opportunity to get Brexit done. It is now perfectly reasonable to say "you've had your chance, you've failed miserably due to your own ineptitude, we're now going to move on". Democracy is not a one-off transaction.

    If the LibDems win on that ticket, it'll be fair to say to Brexitists "you lost, get over it".
     
  14. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    There's a difference between implying something and actually saying it. Try again.
     
  15. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    Nothing undomocratic about that, and if they win I will abide by the result.

    What was undemocratic was Labour's position at the last election on facilitating Brexit and then doing everything in their power to stop it.
     
  16. NoMorePacers

    NoMorePacers Member

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    Labour weren’t elected, so I fail to see how that was undemocratic.
     
  17. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    No there isn't.

    Especially when- tellingly- you've not said you weren't implying it.
     
  18. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I don't think the policy is undemocratic, I just don't agree with it.

    Are you happy now?
     
  19. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Labour weren't elected and weren't involved in the Brexit negotiations. May deliberately excluded them and didn't address any of their issues with her deal. Perhaps if she'd compromised- as any sensible leader of a minority Government would do- we'd have had a sensible orderly Brexit by now.

    So there's nothing undemocratic at all in refusing to let May push a Tory Brexit through.
     
    Last edited: 18 Nov 2019
  20. Tetchytyke

    Tetchytyke Established Member

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    Glad to clear it up! If you don't think it undemocratic it's good to hear; disagreeing with it is fine and entireky reasonable. What I don't like is the Brexitist rhetoric about treachery.

    Now I do agree with the policy. After three years of Brexitists bickering amongst themselves, blaming everyone else for their incompetence, I'm all in favour of letting the grown-ups have a go by tearing down A50.
     
  21. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I would prefer to remain in the EU, but personally I'd rather Article 50 was revoked if another referendum indicated this was the preferred option. However, if Article 50 was revoked as a result of the Liberal Democrats being elected then fair enough, that's what was voted for.
     
  22. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    That question would be better directed at the poor saps who voted for them in the expectation they would do what they said in their manifesto.

    At least I admire the honesty of the LibDems even if I disagree with their views.
     
  23. FelixtheCat

    FelixtheCat Established Member

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    As far as I can tell, the LibDem policy is:
    "If we win, we will revoke article 50 and cancel Brexit"

    The qualifier is the important bit here. They most likely will not win. In that case, they will go back to campaigning for a people's vote/2nd referendum/whatever you want to call it.

    I don't necessarily agree with it, but at least you know what you're voting for in that sense.
     
  24. dosxuk

    dosxuk Member

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    But would a Labour supported Brexit look anything like May's deal if they'd won the election? Why should they have to support a Tory Brexit plan that they don't like just because it has the same section title in their manifesto?

    Do parties have to support the Governments plans for policing, education or the NHS? Because all of them are campaigning on increasing their resources and inching services, does that mean they're all wanting to do it the same way?
     
  25. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    What Labour said in its manifesto in 2017 about Theresa May's Brexit proposals was:

    Could you clarify how Labour was going against its manifesto when they opposed something that their manifesto said they would oppose?
     
  26. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    Curious to find out who she is, I Googled it, what a piece of work she is, if her Wikipedia page is accurate, especially the expenses bit!
     
  27. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Perhaps unusually for wiki, yes it’s all accurate. Indeed it barely scratches the surface.

    There is a lot of resentment towards her in the constituency. I literally do not know anyone who will vote for her this time (and I don’t live in a Guardian reading bubble!)
     
  28. cactustwirly

    cactustwirly Established Member

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    Well I can't vote labour because it's now the Communist party, and I can't vote Tory because I'd be voting in a lying flophead like Trump.
    If it came to it, flophead is better because there's no SNP coalition and hopefully the preservation of the Union.

    Please can we have Ed Miliband back!
     
  29. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    I wasn’t particularly enthused by either leader, although to be fair I’m not particularly keen on these debates and would prefer to listen to what they both have to say rather than care who is “the winner”.

    However I think Corbyn has a problem in that he’s not connecting well to people. Last time he wasn’t quite so much on the rack because of May’s self-destructing campaign, which thusfar isn’t repeating with Boris who like it or not is pervading a saleable message. I suspect the comments about the very poor versus the mega rich could come to haunt, as many people will think “what is Corbyn going to do for me?”. People need nuggets that they can think that they will get if they vote for a given party, Blair mastered this with the pledge card, and arguably Cameron did it in 2015. I suspect many are at the point now of having it in their mind that Labour are too much of a liability to vote for, and at present Corbyn is giving little cause for people to change their view, in fact possibly the opposite - he’s confirming their suspicions.

    Barring upset caused by excessive tactical voting I’d say the momentum is more towards the Conservatives at present.
     
  30. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    Conversely the Tories have created the cuts which have caused a lot of upset (even within very strong Tory seats) especially when the local MP says "that's an issue for the independently elected County Council" as if the cuts they are making have no direct link to national policy.

    The main reason for the large scale cuts at a local level is down to social care budgets needing to do a lot more (mostly due to an aging population) which means that there's a lot less money for everything else.

    National Government could have done something about this, however they haven't and so not only is it putting local government funding under more pressure it's also putting pressure on the NHS.

    Threatening to take people's homes away from them isn't going to help either, as it's not uncommon for there to be a surviving spouse. An unintended consequence is that they can't afford to more house as they'll lose a load of the sale price to pay for the care provided to their spouse. This could mean that they can't move to a more suitable property and so need more social care support than they otherwise would have needed.
     

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