Poll: Potential General Election: who are you voting for?

[Puffing Devil]

If everyone voted Liberal it would not be binary

That depends on your point of view and your constituency. If you want Brexit then vote the best of Brexit Party or Tory and reflect on your life choices, or vote for the leading opposition to Brexit in your constituency.

Admittedly, if your ambivalent about Brexit your choice is continued pressure on public services with election promises that won't even bring us back to pre Tory levels or freer spending opposition. Again, a binary choice between good and evil

 

[DarloRich]

I would prefer to vote Green. In my constituency the leading challengers are Labour. I will hold my nose and vote Labour to try to prevent a Tory MP.

What about you? Are you happy with a Tory win, or will you do something about it? It's a binary choice.

Following the advice I was given by Corbyn fans I will be voting for someone else. That wont he conservative, ever. So that leaves me green, lib dem and our independent former Brexit party man or a spoilt paper.

I haven't decided yet. The sad thing is a half decent labour leader would clean up. Corbyn wont. We cant escape that.

 

[AndrewE]

I would prefer to vote Green. In my constituency the leading challengers are Labour. I will hold my nose and vote Labour to try to prevent a Tory MP.
What about you? Are you happy with a Tory win, or will you do something about it? It's a binary choice.

Unfortunately. See post 794.

Most people entrenched in their views don't believe any evidence. .... My reasons for despising the Labour Party are deep and lasting =- though full disclosure, although I did not vote for Labour 1997-2010 - I thought it was right and they deserved to win at the time.
Corbyn on the other hand - is just far too left wing and an IRA sympathizer.

There you see "deeply entrenched prejudice" clearly illustrated.
Lots of people cannot get past the right-wing press propaganda of the last half-century or so, or see through the "truths" they have absorbed over their lifetimes - even though there is another point of view with centuries of terrible injustice that they have never considered.
My late father-in-law was typical: agreed with all the policies but couldn't tolerate "those commies" or vote for them...
A close friend who grew up in a farming community in the 1950s and '60s points out that farmers always used to do best under Labour governments, but couldn't recognise it, let alone bring themselves to vote Labour

 

[AlterEgo]

Why does Britain even need nuclear weapons? It's not as if it's a significant country anymore.

The nuclear deterrent gives us significant international military leverage.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Following the advice I was given by Corbyn fans I will be voting for someone else. That wont he conservative, ever. So that leaves me green, lib dem and our independent former Brexit party man or a spoilt paper.

I haven't decided yet. The sad thing is a half decent labour leader would clean up. Corbyn wont. We cant escape that.

As you're not coming off the fence, I'm assuming that you'll be happy to enable a Tory win.

 

[Puffing Devil]

The nuclear deterrent gives us significant international military leverage.

Why do we need it? Are you anticipating a Russian invasion? In what possible scenario could you even justify the use of nuclear weapons, and mutually assured destruction?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The nuclear deterrent gives us significant international military leverage.

Although to a degree I agree, I do not think full SLBM technology/Trident is now needed. I personally would go for a smaller, less expensive "frapping force" a la Francais.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why do we need it? Are you anticipating a Russian invasion? In what possible scenario could you even justify the use of nuclear weapons, and mutually assured destruction?

As Donald Trump brilliantly stated - I am building a very powerful military so we NEVER have to use it. Why Russia by the way?

 

[DarloRich]

As your not coming off the fence, I'm assuming that you'll be happy to enable a Tory win.

I and former labour voters driven ( in my case a 20 year plus member) away by the crack pot Corbyn fan boys arent to blame for a Tory government. Thise who facilitated the rise of Corbyn carry the balme. They carry the blame for making labour unelectable in the face of a terroble Tory government. Those same Corbyn fan boys have to own what is coming. They are to blame

Btw They told me to f off and vote for someone else so I am. They cant have it both ways.

Sadly, unlike you it seems, I am merely human and have to make a hard choice. You are evidently morally superior to me and can bask in that warm glow of self righteousness. It is clear that kind of silly point scoring reinforces that feeling of superiority so I will let you carry on.

 

[ainsworth74]

I personally would go for a smaller, less expensive "frapping force" a la Francais.

France operate a force of SLBM equipped nuclear submarines with one continuously at sea like our own. On top of that they operate nuclear tipped cruise missiles from air force and navy jet aircraft. France have a significantly larger and more expensive nuclear deterrent than our own...

 

[507021]

Most people entrenched in their views don't believe any evidence.

You haven't provided any evidence of your smear whatsoever, other than "I have evidence, but I'm not telling you".

However, as a Blairite, I do agree Labour is too left wing and don't think the party will win another election until a more moderate leader is elected.

 

[Puffing Devil]

As Donald Trump brilliantly stated - I am building a very powerful military so we NEVER have to use it. Why Russia by the way?

Most likely scenario - though I'm happy to consider other, credible, threats.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I and former labour voters driven ( in my case a 20 year plus member) away by the crack pot Corbyn fan boys arent to blame for a Tory government. Thise who facilitated the rise of Corbyn carry the balme. They carry the blame for making labour unelectable in the face of a terroble Tory government. Those same Corbyn fan boys have to own what is coming. They are to blame

Btw They told me to f off and vote for someone else so I am. They cant have it both ways.

Sadly, unlike you it seems, I am merely human and have to make a hard choice. You are evidently morally superior to me and can bask in that warm glow of self righteousness. It is clear that kind of silly point scoring reinforces that feeling of superiority so I will let you carry on.

You seem to want to project your own insecurities onto me. I really don't care. Either you enable a Tory or you don't. The rest is just noise.

 

[DarloRich]

Why do we need it? Are you anticipating a Russian invasion? In what possible scenario could you even justify the use of nuclear weapons, and mutually assured destruction?

Sigh. The threat of such use is the value of the deterrent. It gives a moment of pause for would be assailants when the enormity of what is inside the box hits home.

Btw the concept of MAD probably had a restraining effect on cold war politics. It meant war was unwinable and therefore to be avoided. The deterrent has kept us safe and continues to do so.

Corbyn would bin that and the supporting western military and political alliances in no time

 

[DarloRich]

You seem to want to project your own insecurities onto me. I really don't care. Either you enable a Tory or you don't. The rest is just noise.

Sigh. This is tiresome. I have not and will not ever voted Tory. I am not sure how that means I am facilitating Tory government but as I said being self righteous is clearly of great value and importance to you so feel free to draw whatever warming conclusions you need to from my posts.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Corbyn would bin that and the supporting western military and pllitical alliances in no time.

Corbyn is a man, not a Government. The manifesto is quite clear:

Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent. Labour will also actively lead multilateral efforts under our obligations to the Non-Proliferation Treaty to create a nuclear-free world.​

 

[DarloRich]

Corbyn is a man, not a Government. The manefesto is quite clear:

Labour supports the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent. Labour will also actively lead multilateral efforts under our obligations to the Non-Proliferation Treaty to create a nuclear-free world.​

The w

I dont believe him. I want Corbyn to come out and say he supports that policy and the deterrent clearly.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Oh dear. As if Britain is still a colonial power.

Nobody actually gives a toss about the UK - at least not that I’m aware of.

So why nuclear weapons?

Also if it was up to me nukes would be one of those inventions that was forgotten, but moving on.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Sigh. This is tiresome. I have not and will not ever voted Tory. I am not sure how that means I am facilitating Tory government but as I said being self righteous is clearly of great value and importance to you so feel free to draw whatever warming conclusions you need to from my posts.

If you fail to vote for the strongest opposition party and a Tory wins by one vote in that seat, you will have facilitated the victory.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I dont believe him. I want Corbyn to come out and say he supports that policy and the deterrent clearly.

Again - he's a man, who may be PM. It's not his decision alone to make.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Now, although I don’t agree with all of Labour’s policies (and don’t believe half of what is promised will be delivered - but that’s the skeptic within me), I would still vote for them if I could (but apparently I’m too thick and immature to vote - at least according to some punters here).

Now, if only I lived in Haltemprice and Howden.

 

[ainsworth74]

Again - he's a man, who may be PM. It's not his decision alone to make.

Technically it is. Whilst our delineation of nuclear control is nowhere near as neat and tidy as the Americans; nuclear release authority rests with the PM (or their designated nuclear deputies in the event the PM is out of contact) and it is with them alone whether or not a decision to authorise the use of nuclear weapons rests.

Obviously the wider policy point of whether or not the UK should maintain nuclear weapons is a decision which does not rest solely with the PM but the at the point of release it is theirs alone.

 

[DarloRich]

Again - he's a man, who may be PM. It's not his decision alone to make.

You expect a PM with a lifetime commitment to cowardice ( sorry pacifism) CND, disarmament and stop the (US) war to agree to the replacement of the deterrent do you?

I didn't think you were that niave!

If you fail to vote for the strongest opposition party and a Tory wins by one vote in that seat, you will have facilitated the victory.

Yawn. Like I said I was told by Corbyn fans to f off vote for some else. I have. They own that.

As I said draw whatever conclusions you like from that. It clearly means a great deal to you.

 

[DarloRich]

Oh dear. As if Britain is still a colonial power.

Nobody actually gives a toss about the UK - at least not that I’m aware of.

So why nuclear weapons?

Also if it was up to me nukes would be one of those inventions that was forgotten, but moving on.

Most of this post is silly apart from the last paragraph which I agree with. I would happily give up all nuclear weapons on the same day they are all chucked in the sea.

Until then I am keeping the ones I have.

 

[Puffing Devil]

You expect a PM with a lifetime commitment to cowardice ( sorry pacifism) CND, disarmament and stop the (US) war to agree to the replacement of the deterrent do you?

I didn't think you were that niave!



Yawn. Like I said I was told by Corbyn fans to f off vote for some else. I have. They own that.

As I said draw whatever conclusions you like from that. It clearly means a great deal to you.

Do you take ownership for any of your decisions, or are they are all the fault of someone else?

 

[DarloRich]

Do you take ownership for any of your decisions, or are they are all the fault of someone else?

This is really important to you isnt it? It is quite sad really. What is it you want me to say?

 

[ainsworth74]

Okay gentlemen I think it might be time to take a step back and breathe. It's getting a bit heated in here right now so I'd ask that it's dialed down a notch.

 

[AndrewE]

You expect a PM with a lifetime commitment to cowardice ( sorry pacifism) CND, disarmament and stop the (US) war to agree to the replacement of the deterrent do you?

I suspect that I agree with you about lots of (maybe most) things, but have you ever wondered how much courage it takes to be a Pacifist? "Conchies" suffered in both World Wars and also worked and gave up their lives on ambulance and other duties in both wars.
The value (or otherwise) of a nuclear deterrent is OT really, but the fact remains that a revenge attack on a civilian population is illegal, besides consuming a disproportionate amount of national scientific and technical resources. An admiring friend told me that Ronald Reagan's autobiography bragged that he had brilliantly bankrupted the Soviet Union by expanding the arms race...

 

[DarloRich]

I suspect that I agree with you about lots of (maybe most) things, but have you ever wondered how much courage it takes to be a Pacifist? "Conchies" suffered in both World Wars and also worked and gave up their lives on ambulance and other duties in both wars.
The value (or otherwise) of a nuclear deterrent is OT really, but the fact remains that a revenge attack on a civilian population is illegal, besides consuming a disproportionate amount of national scientific and technical resources. An admiring friend told me that Ronald Reagan's autobiography bragged that he had brilliantly bankrupted the Soviet Union by expanding the arms race...

Regan did exactly that. That was one of the reasons the communists were defeated. They could not keep up financially. It was a deliberate ploy to use western economic power against the USSR. It worked.

Personally I think the thought of war at this time when tensions were high was retarded by the knowledge the response would be devastating if control was lost.

I belive Corbyn is a coward and an appeaser. Look at his stance over Kosovo and the wider Yugoslav conflicts generally. He would not have got involed. UK intervention in Kosovo prevented a masace. He would have stood around wringing his hands tutting coming up with excuses for genocide rather than send in troops to protect civilians.

That isn't good enough. There are times you have to fight or do something dangerous to save life. I dont think he would.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Corbyn is a leaver. Labour are a leave party under his leadership. He wont even tell you what position he would take in any such referendum. His neutral stance is a cop out and is desigend to stop questions about his views compared to the views of the majority of the party memebership.

It is once again an attempt to be all things to all people while offering no view himself. It is preposterous.

Johnson is a complete tool but at least he is clear: vote for me and I will deliver Brexit without any messing about

We know this is fantasy just as much as we know Corbyn lives a fantasy about brexit.

Frankly I would prefer to have neither and consider Corbyn a danger when you consider his views on foreign policy, his terrorist chums, his views on defence, his views on western institutions. I think his tax policy is immature and naive and his free stuff for everyone policy undeliverable and his obsession with Palestine boring and his inability or unwillingness to challenge antisemitism within his fan base beyond acceptable

But I bet you arent bothered about any of that and will make excuses.

Corbyn may well be a leaver at heart, but he's promised to hold a second referendum and immediately implement the result, whichever way it goes. Why does it matter how he will campaign and vote? He will have one vote, just the same as you and I. I can make up my own mind how I will vote and I don't need Corbyn to tell me what to do. I am happy for him to act as a neutral umpire. Some people may see Corbyn's stance as weak but has anyone got any other suggestions how to heal the wounds that Brexit has caused? We've already had one MP murdered and I see that a Labour canvasser has just got their jaw broken an a doorstep in Rotherham.

As for him being unwilling to use nuclear weapons, as it has been said already, it is Labour's policy to keep Trident. For it to be effective any enemy has to believe that there's a chance that it could be used against them. All Corbyn needs to do is keep his gob shut as to wether or not he'd press the button, just like has with his views on Brexit for the three past years!