Poll: Potential General Election: who are you voting for?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AlterEgo, 3 Sep 2019.

Potential October GE: Who will you vote for?

  1. Conservative

    45 vote(s)
    14.9%
  2. Labour

    59 vote(s)
    19.5%
  3. SNP

    23 vote(s)
    7.6%
  4. Plaid Cymru

    4 vote(s)
    1.3%
  5. Lib Dems

    123 vote(s)
    40.7%
  6. TIG

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  7. DUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sinn Fein

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  9. UUP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. SDLP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Green Party (or any local Green affiliate)

    12 vote(s)
    4.0%
  12. Other independent or minor party (please state!)

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  13. Spoiled ballot

    5 vote(s)
    1.7%
  14. Not voting

    7 vote(s)
    2.3%
  15. Brexit Party

    20 vote(s)
    6.6%
  1. 433N

    433N Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2017
    It's not a little bizarre that Johnson has lost 3 of 3, commands little respect, 'leads' a minority government, isn't trusted by parliamentarians and says he will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension if it is passed into law (i.e. refuses to abide by parliamentary decisions).

    In what way isn't resigning the right thing for him to do ?

    As I've said, I don't see what a GE solves and if I was the opposition, I'd refuse a request for a GE until he does resign (and enjoy his complete humiliation on the way).
     
  2. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    16,227
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    He's got as far as he has (which admittedly isn't very) by ignoring the "gentlemen's agreements" that are the basis of our "constitution" but aren't actually enforceable if someone chooses to go against them. Things like not threatening to game the date of an election to get what he wants, not proroguing Parliament for an unreasonable period, providing a teller for an amendment. Along with some fairly dispicable actions as Mayor of London (several tens of millions of public money wasted on the Garden Bridge) and the lies of the Leave campaign, it's clear he has no shame or conscience. We should have no expectation that he will do the "right thing", unless it also happens to be in his personal interest.

    In a rational world an incoming government ought to have three priorities:
    • A referendum on Brexit
    • Electoral reform to make Westminster somewhere near proportional
    • Codifying the constitution so it is absolutely clear what governments can and can't do
    I'm not confident we'll be back to a rational world any time soon.
     
  3. Glenmutchkin

    Glenmutchkin Member

    Messages:
    594
    Joined:
    14 Dec 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    I'm not torn. The SNP have had the opportunity to make a difference in Scotland and blown it. Taking Scotland out of the UK would just be repeating the folly that is Brexit.

    I will vote for a party that is pro Union, anti Brexit and not in thrall to neo Marxists.
     
  4. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,376
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    I am not a millionaire and I care about people. I also know Corbyn cant win so all of the lovely, lefty, easy solutions to hard problems stuff he suggests is never going to happen.

    As if he is going to resign. This is all a game to him. He doesn't, really, believe in Brexit but has identified this issue as one he can use to further his own agenda. His whole support for leave is based on self interest and his desire to be PM. He sees that as a the way to ensure he remains in power. That is all he is interested in.

    I think, like Trump, he has just found out how hard the job he has always wanted can be!

    Item one is the only item that MIGHT happen. The rest wont.
     
  5. 433N

    433N Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2017
    Which is fine but I am in a constituency with a Tory majority of 10000 and the SNP are the only party with a realistic opportunity of overturning that. So it's vote SNP or waste my vote ... Independence is a fight (or not) for another time.
     
  6. dosxuk

    dosxuk Member

    Messages:
    643
    Joined:
    2 Jan 2011
    I'm struggling to decide if the Johnson/Cummings administration's tactics are actually strategic genius or utter stupidity. It feels like there is a plan to all of this, but based on the expressions on Johnson's face at each result, I don't think it's working, but yet they carry on regardless.

    But then there's obviously some planning happening, hence the "forgetting" to provide tellers during a vote, and then agreeing overnight to get the bill through the lord's rather than blocking it by wasting time - someone thinks they've got a tactic.
     
  7. 433N

    433N Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2017
    Well, of course, he isn't. So use that against him ... it's resign, total humiliation and/or the casting of the Tories to electoral oblivion.

    It is the fact that tendering his resignation isn't even mentioned and isn't expected. We SHOULD expect it. It is the right thing to do and it is what would and should be done in 'normal' times.

    If a discussion isn't had about his resignation, then his behaviour becomes normalised.
     
  8. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,376
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    Can we be realistic? He isnt going to resign and doesn't have to. This is the kind of political immaturity you get when you have a student union protester as leader of the opposition.

    Also this Tory electoral oblivion you speak of? Corbyn isnt going to win. Labour will back an election when they get no deal of the table. They may well pose a vote of no confidence immediately thereafter butthere chances are slim.

    Do you think they will take seats off the SNP in Scotland? Do you think they will win seats in middle England places like MK? Do you think they will win enough marginals? I don't.
     
  9. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,376
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    I don't disagree. However it seems De Piffle expected Corbyn to leap headlong into the election trap without thinking things through. For once the man seems to have grown a brain!
     
  10. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,819
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Such a self-satisfied post which underlines many of the problems with the left. I’d vote Labour if it didn’t mean aligning myself with people who thought the same way you do.
     
  11. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    20,180
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    The reason I'm torn is because I don't think the Lib Dems have a chance of winning in my constituency, but Labour might.
     
  12. bramling

    bramling Established Member

    Messages:
    6,612
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2012
    Location:
    Hertfordshire / Teesdale
    I agree. There may be unease with elements of what has been going on, and remembering the old golden rule that people hate voting for disunited parties, but there are a number of factors which may likely come into play:

    1) Labour are disunited too - much of the parliamentary party despises Corbyn, and the only reason this hasn’t played out is because Brexit has taken up the stage time

    2) When it comes to it, people will think of the economic consequences of Corbyn, and in particular the consequences for their personal tax bill
     
  13. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Joined:
    17 May 2011
    Who's "we"?? Who's fed up??
    Not me.
     
  14. Class 466

    Class 466 Member

    Messages:
    670
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2010
    Will proudly be voting Lib Dem as I have done with every election since I became able to vote in 2015. I’m a member and strong believer in a second referendum on the terms of Brexit. (Something Dom Cummings even advocated when it suited him). Especially as so many more young people are now eligible who’ve had no say, but have had to watch the shambolic handling of this entire process.

    I’d support any sort of alliance/coalition to get the now far-right BoJo Conservatives as far away from power as possible. It’s absolutely disgusting the way they’ve treated some of their most loyal MPs this week.

    Unfortunately the constituency of Ashford is Tory through and through and our MP is Damian Green of all people.
     
  15. 433N

    433N Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2017
    I agree with most of what you say. Johnson won't resign. Corbyn won't win.

    I take the view that a GE is pointless and can't understand why people are getting so animated about it. Johnson wants people talking about a GE when they should be talking about a referendum. I mean he is calling Corbyn's opposition to a GE a 'cowardly insult to democracy' but what is his denial of a second referendum of any form. He needs one if he wants any sort of mandate for a No Deal Brexit but runs chicken scared of holding one because he knows he will lose.

    A GE may just let Johnson get his wafer thin majority back ... maybe. Johnson is on the run, the opposition (all of it) have him by the proverbials, castrate him - cut off his power. Let him do nothing. He resigns or he becomes more irrational and does irreparable damage to the Tory party. He has form. He did it on Monday. And I'm hoping that the conservative Conservatives in the Lords will be good to their word and let the bill through.

    Those 90,000 odd could be made to rue the day they put their ballots in the post.
     
  16. 433N

    433N Member

    Messages:
    528
    Joined:
    20 Jun 2017
    .

    You are lucky. Anyone who voted for them in 2010 can feel nothing but slightly grubby for voting for them again and certainly can't feel proud of it.
     
  17. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    16,227
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    They did manage to moderate the Tory government somewhat - look what happened in 2015 when they were ditched - but I agree they should have done more and they got the optics totally wrong with all that love-in stuff.
     
  18. Class 466

    Class 466 Member

    Messages:
    670
    Joined:
    5 Mar 2010
    By that logic, everyone should feel grubby for voting Labour because of the Iraq war... but they don’t.
     
  19. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

    Messages:
    3,951
    Joined:
    12 Apr 2012
    I would say that, quite simply, it's because too many Labour members firmly believe that an election as soon as possible will result in a certain Labour victory - hence the continual pushing for an election. Personally I think that's crazy, but there you go.

    As an example, look at this Counterfire artlcle, which makes out that Labour must call an election now to win, and even - buried in it's depths - makes the assumption that the reason some people are still supporting the Conservatives is because Labour isn't left wing enough(!!!!!!). The article is totally delusional, but it's the kind of thing that many Labour activists are reading and believing. (For the sake of balance: I'm quite sure that most Tory members read and believe stuff that's equally delusional)

    I would imagine the SNP are also motivated to push for an election because they believe they'll win seats (and anger against a continuing Boris Government after his election victory will help the independence cause). I fear in this case, they are probably correct.

     
  20. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    22,376
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    I agree that is what SHOULD happen but Johnson is under no compulsion to offer a referendum. He has, as far as he is concerned, a mandate to deliver the Brexit that we as a country voted for. That vote was in or out. We chose out. Out it shall be. We didn't vote on the degree or mechanism of out
     
  21. talltim

    talltim Established Member

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    17 Jan 2010
    The 'we' is the rest of the EU. As the sentence you queried says...
     
  22. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Joined:
    17 May 2011
    Trying to work out the plan;
    No-deal on 31 Oct will be outlawed.
    (1)Johnson has to go to the EU and accept a deal, in which case if it goes through parliament we leave on 31st with a deal followed by general election.
    (2)Johnson can't get a deal, so the EU grant us another extension for a general election.
    = Left coalition win, referendum on no-deal/remain or deal/remain
    = Right wing coalition win, try for a deal or no-deal exit.
    Or is that just me in a parallel universe?
    I'm taking it as read that there will be a general election this year; alternatively a vote of no confidence and Corbyn tries to form a government.
     
  23. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Joined:
    17 May 2011
    Thanks for clearing that up. I'm pretty sure the "rest of the EU" is laughing their socks off at us, but I see no reason fro them to be "fed up", carry on laughing!!
     
  24. GusB

    GusB Established Member

    Messages:
    1,727
    Joined:
    9 Jul 2016
    Location:
    Elginshire
    Jo Johnson has just resigned:
    https://twitter.com/JoJohnsonUK/status/1169555292918571008
     
  25. St Rollox

    St Rollox Member

    Messages:
    647
    Joined:
    2 Jun 2013
  26. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

    Messages:
    3,285
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2013
    Location:
    Baildon, West Yorkshire
    I was just about to post that. Interestingly he talks about being torn between family and national interest. Is he taking a swipe at his own brother? He's lost the votes, party confidence and now maybe the support of his sibling? And we are still expecting him to come up with a deal?
     
  27. Darandio

    Darandio Established Member

    Messages:
    7,344
    Joined:
    24 Feb 2007
    Location:
    Redcar
    That just isn't going to happen. There are still far too many of these people around.

     
  28. Howardh

    Howardh Established Member

    Messages:
    4,617
    Joined:
    17 May 2011
    What are the odds that by Friday teatime he'll have gone?
     
  29. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

    Messages:
    16,227
    Joined:
    21 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Jo Johnson is a Remainer, resigned as a minister over May's deal and has called for another referendum. If not for the family connection I doubt he'd have been appointed as a minister in the post-takeover clearout. Sister Rachel and father Stanley are also Remainers.

    Pretty unlikely I'd say. His only guiding principle seems to be the acquisition of power and glory for himself.
     
  30. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,819
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    Boris will not resign.

    He’s solely driven by personal ambition. If there was a way for him to manoeuvre himself to remain PM while still avoiding a disastrous no deal Brexit he would find it.

    Boris enjoyed a comprehensive victory in the leadership election and can simply point to that.
     

Share This Page