[Poll] Which manufacturer do you want to build the HS2 trains?

Which manufacturer do you want to build the HS2 trains?

  • Alstom

    Votes: 22 25.0%
  • Bombardier

    Votes: 16 18.2%
  • Hitachi

    Votes: 16 18.2%
  • Patentes Talgo

    Votes: 8 9.1%
  • Siemens

    Votes: 26 29.5%

  • Total voters
    88
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Shaw S Hunter

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Poll needs another option: don't care. Unless all the bidders are going to supply prototypes for us to sample how can anyone form a useful opinion? So long as the specification has been put together properly I would expect all options to be perfectly satisfactory.
 

Xenon

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Poll needs another option: don't care. Unless all the bidders are going to supply prototypes for us to sample how can anyone form a useful opinion? So long as the specification has been put together properly I would expect all options to be perfectly satisfactory.
I'm just interested in what people think. If you didn't care, then you needn't have replied.
 

hexagon789

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Metro-Cammell!

In all seriousness, not Siemens, if it was anything like the 374, eurgh. Probably Alstom, maybe Bombardier.
 

Bletchleyite

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Siemens. A UK-gauge ICE3 with the full DB interior (including the actual wood, glass and chrome) would be my ideal, possibly also a few actual UIC gauge ICE3s for London to Birmingham. And the Bistrowagen with draught beer.

DB really know how to do high speed right in my view, from timetables to operational models to fare structure to the stock itself.
 

hexagon789

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That's largely because DB have a much higher standard of track maintenance than the UK, and long have had. Of course, with HS2 being new-build, there is no excuse for it being anything other than perfect.
I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that DB have higher general track standards, it's just that many other foreign-built trains running on UK metals seem to be able to ride perfectly well on somewhat...we'll say 'indifferent' track, but Siemens seem to be unable to compensate for this.
 

Bletchleyite

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I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest that DB have higher general track standards, it's just that many other foreign-built trains running on UK metals seem to be able to ride perfectly well on somewhat...we'll say 'indifferent' track, but Siemens seem to be unable to compensate for this.
That is true, the poor ride is a big issue with the Desiro, and it's worse still when you get off the relatively good (for the UK) standard of track on the WCML itself.

Mind you, very little matches the quality of the ride of the Class 221 Super Voyager (not the 220 or 222) or the old benchmark the Class 158 which is silky smooth even on the elderly jointed rail you get in some places it operates.
 

class387

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I'd have the Siemens Velaro, but to full DB ICE specification, not the cheap plastic interior of the 374s. Alstom would be good if we could get some double-deckers for captive stock, but I think that's unlikely.

CRRC would be good to see, as their trains in China are definitely to European standard, but we should probably have them first on conventional lines rather than straight onto HS2.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Siemens. A UK-gauge ICE3 with the full DB interior (including the actual wood, glass and chrome) would be my ideal, possibly also a few actual UIC gauge ICE3s for London to Birmingham. And the Bistrowagen with draught beer.
DB really know how to do high speed right in my view, from timetables to operational models to fare structure to the stock itself.
Have a read of the opening of the new Erfurt-Nuremberg NBS in December (article in March Modern Railways).
DB didn't test all the ICEs they intended to use on the line, and some were stranded in the middle of nowhere with ERTMS faults.
It seems they were at different software mod levels, and some were incompatible with the infrastructure.
That's the same level of fiasco as the Day 1 faults on our GWR IEPs.
 

DanNCL

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I chose Bombardier, mainly because they are the only manufacturer who both designs and builds stock from scratch in the UK. I also think the Zefiro looks quite smart.
 

MarkyT

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Hitachi also make tilting trains and double deck trains. But not in massive quantities - neither are super-popular in their core market in Japan.
Tilting trains are used predominantly on the narrow gauge networks in Japan. Here is a Hitachi product page describing their tilting technology:
http://www.hitachi-rail.com/products/rolling_stock/tilting/index.html

Tilting Train
Hitachi aims to achieve higher speeds on curves using existing infrastructure with a failsafe and energy-saving tilting system.
Photos of the Tilting Trains
The system has been developed to increase the operational speed of the trains on Japanese narrow gauge lines which have many curves. With the system, car bodies are tilted at curves to compensate for unbalanced car body centrifugal acceleration to a greater extent than the compensation produced by the track cant, so that passengers do not feel centrifugal acceleration and thus trains can run at higher speed at curves.

Features
Tilting trains are being operated in Europe and Canada, other than Japan. However, for the following reasons, it is obvious that the Japanese system is the most suitable one for a meter gauged line which has many reverse curves.
Today more than 536 units of tilting train cars are in operation in Japan and Australia.
The following page contains a nice illustration and tabulation of the characteristics of Japanese tilting trains compared to European designs.
http://www.hitachi-rail.com/products/rolling_stock/tilting/feature05.html

One of the more recent Shinkansen designs, the N700, also incorporates a very limited amount of tilt to raise speed comfortably on some the earlier sections of the dedicated high speed network, where curves of 2,500m radius occur.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N700_Series_Shinkansen

The N700 series (N700系 Enu nanahyaku-kei) is a Japanese Shinkansen high-speed train with tilting capability developed jointly by JR Central and JR-West for use on the Tokaido and Sanyo Shinkansen lines since 2007, and also operated by JR Kyushu on the Kyushu Shinkansen line.

N700 series trains have a maximum speed of 300 km/h (186 mph), and tilting of up to one degree allows the trains to maintain 270 km/h (168 mph) even on 2,500 m (8,200 ft) radius curves that previously had a maximum speed of 255 km/h (158 mph). Another feature of the N700 is that it accelerates quicker than other shinkansen trains, with a maximum acceleration rate of 2.6 km/h/s. This enables it to reach 270 km/h (170 mph) in only three minutes. Because of these improvements, trains can travel between Tokyo and Osaka on a Nozomi run in as little as 2 hours and 22 minutes on a fastest service. (8 minutes faster than before).
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I chose Bombardier, mainly because they are the only manufacturer who both designs and builds stock from scratch in the UK. I also think the Zefiro looks quite smart.
It's unlikely there will be much UK content in a Bombardier HS2 train.
Derby has no experience in proper high-speed operation (over 300 km/h), so there are no existing local components (bodyshells, bogies, traction packages etc).
A UK Zefiro would be a UK-gauge version of a German design, much like Eurostar 373 was a UK-gauge version of the TGV.
Most production so far has been in China (for use on new lines there) and Italy (partnered with Ansaldo/Hitachi).
Bombardier worked with Talgo to produce AVE versions in Spain, and with Alstom for the Swiss ICN and Amtrak Acela.
I think the latest Avelia Liberty for the US is just an Alstom product.
Experience in Europe is actually quite limited, compared to Siemens and Alstom high speed products.
 

800034

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If only BREL could build them for us... Chose Alstom as they haven't really had any major products for Britain recently, also they have significant experience with the TGV for instance.
 

whhistle

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Not much of a poll if you want to exclude people from it!
Polls can't include everything all the time.
You choose from the options you're given. If there's no option that you agree with, you don't vote - simple.
And you can vote without trying out the final product. You look at their current high speed offering and decide. Or support a company you like. For example, I'd take a seimens unit over a rattly bombardier any day (from the sample of both trains I have tried)!
I wonder if the recent drive to reduce plastic will find its way into train building...


Not Hitachi (sorry) as I'll get tired of seeing the same trains everywhere. East Coast, GWR, probably MML - all the same sort of train. But it would be good for train building in the UK.

Anyone who builds these would be my vote...
 
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