Poor connection at Holyhead off some boats, and general SailRail discussion

[skibrox]

There seems to be an awful lot of trains that don't meet the ferry anymore,

Stena & Irish Ferries arrivals just after midnight.
Cardiff/Manchester/London trains not until after 420..

Stena Arrival - 0545
Virgin to London leaves 0551 (not enough time)

Virgin from London arrives 0855
Stena leaves 0855....

I wouldn't think Holyhead had enough traffic on its own without the ferries.

 

[Quakkerillo]

I just checked with the times you mentioned.
Night boats don't connect to/from trains without a 4h wait (from Dublin) or about 1.5 (to Dublin)
The 5.45 from Dublin connects to the 6.28 to Cardiff / 6.55 to London]
The 8.55 departure to Dublin has a connection from the 8.23 arrival from Birmingham (the 8.55 London you mentioned is a departure TO London)

Seems to me they always keep at least 30 minutes between departures/arrivals, to be on the safe side with connections. Doesn't seem that bad to me. Only the night service, but from which stations, and to which stations would you bring passengers at 3am?

 

[berneyarms]

There are only two sailings that don't have a ferry connection which are the evening sailings from Dublin, namely the 20:30 Stena Line ferry and 20:55 Irish Ferries service from Dublin.

You are incorrect about the other times.

The 02:15 Stena ferry from Dublin (05:45 arrival at Holyhead) does have a rail connection - either the 06:28 ATW train to Cardiff or the 06:55 Virgin train to London.

The 08:55 Stena ferry to Dublin connects out of the 05:30 Virgin Trains service from Birmingham (not London) (arrives 08:23).

You've got to remember that Holyhead is a base with refuelling facilities - the trains then serve all of North Wales en route.

 

[CallySleeper]

Yes the 01.50 VT from Holyhead was scrapped a while ago. But it's true to say that trains and boats these days aren't as well connected as they once might have been..

 

[jimm]

Yes the 01.50 VT from Holyhead was scrapped a while ago. But it's true to say that trains and boats these days aren't as well connected as they once might have been..

Well the rise of Ryanair has rather changed the dynamics of passenger travel between Eire and Great Britain, the overnight mail also goes by air these days and those evening ferries out of Dublin are operated mainly for the flow of lorries heading out of Ireland after loading up earlier in the day.

 

[daniel3982]

I've used sail rail on many occasions and there is probably only something like 50 passengers who make the journey now per boat.

 

[PHILIPE]

Train services from Holyhead virtually run at a clock face pattern (give a few minutes variations)

 

[dk1]

I've used sail rail on many occasions and there is probably only something like 50 passengers who make the journey now per boat.

Wonder how many of them are also ex-BR who travel free anyway (apart from port tax).

 

[furnessvale]

Wonder how many of them are also ex-BR who travel free anyway (apart from port tax).

I once travelled on the boat train from Newhaven. Two passengers, me and my brother, both on free passes!

 

[craigybagel]

Wonder how many of them are also ex-BR who travel free anyway (apart from port tax).

Not just ex-BR, it's also free for non safeguarded priv holders.

 

[dk1]

Not just ex-BR, it's also free for non safeguarded priv holders.

Good news. Criminal that some get it & others don't. Makes me happy.

 

[Greenback]

There are undoubtedly far fewer rail and ferry passengers between the Republic of Ireland and the UK these days. I've seen a big decline on the Fishguard to Rosslare route over the past 19 years. Foot passengers are now much more likely to fly on a budget airline, it's only those who don't have a convenient airport, who dislike flying or can take advantage of free travel components that are likely to use SailRail these days.

This decline has been reflected in the provision of rail connections on both sides of the Irish Sea. The station at Rosslare port was relocated some years back, to a far more inconvenient site. The line to Waterford, useful for those travelling on wards in a westerly direction, was closed, and dedicated ferry connections at Holyhead have been cut as there are now insufficient passengers to make them worthwhile, and services fit into regular patterns designed to attract those who aren't using the ferries as well.

 

[berneyarms]

There are undoubtedly far fewer rail and ferry passengers between the Republic of Ireland and the UK these days. I've seen a big decline on the Fishguard to Rosslare route over the past 19 years. Foot passengers are now much more likely to fly on a budget airline, it's only those who don't have a convenient airport, who dislike flying or can take advantage of free travel components that are likely to use SailRail these days.

This decline has been reflected in the provision of rail connections on both sides of the Irish Sea. The station at Rosslare port was relocated some years back, to a far more inconvenient site. The line to Waterford, useful for those travelling on wards in a westerly direction, was closed, and dedicated ferry connections at Holyhead have been cut as there are now insufficient passengers to make them worthwhile, and services fit into regular patterns designed to attract those who aren't using the ferries as well.

On the plus side the evening Rosslare-Dublin Connolly train has been deferred to 18:35 for the summer months (June-August) again this year to offer a connection out of the afternoon sailing from Fishguard.

I would argue that since the ferries arrive/depart from the outer harbour at Holyhead port and not beside the railway station anymore, that the connecting time of about 30 minutes is about correct to allow for the bus transfer to the terminal/station building, and that the connections as they stand are more than adequate.

The main daytime ferry sailings in either direction now have a direct connection to/from London which was not the case until this summer.

One of the reasons for the demise of the night time VT connection to Birmingham was ongoing problems with drunk passengers off the ferries. The 4 hour wait should be sufficient time for them to sober up somewhat!

 

[bangor-toad]

I use the Belfast-Cairnryan-Ayr SailRail route relatively often.

On most trips the bus between Cairnryan and Ayr has had less than 10 people on it. It makes for a pleasant trip.

I really wonder though how long it can last. I just can't see how the economic case is there to keep it. It'll be a great shame if it does vanish but with such low passenger numbers what long term prospects does it have...

Mr Toad

 

[Greenback]

On the plus side the evening Rosslare-Dublin Connolly train has been deferred to 18:35 for the summer months (June-August) again this year to offer a connection out of the afternoon sailing from Fishguard.

Yes, that is good news, I used that train last year and it was quite well used, both by ferry passengers and locals.

I would argue that since the ferries arrive/depart from the outer harbour at Holyhead port and not beside the railway station anymore, that the connecting time of about 30 minutes is about correct to allow for the bus transfer to the terminal/station building, and that the connections as they stand are more than adequate.

You're right. When I caught the above mentioned train at Rosslare, there was supposed to be half an hour, maybe 35 minutes, between the arrival of the ship and the departure of the train. By the time they opened the doors, it was ten minutes after arrival at the port, then there was the long walk down to the terminal, then the walk to the station. I was starting to worry a bit!

I don't go to Holyhead so often, but from what I remember, it's not a quick or easy transition there either. I think Fishguard is pretty good, though.

 

[SeanG]

Couple of years ago I went to Fishguard and back on the boat train. Quiet on the way to Fishguard, though filled up a small bit at Whitland (presumably pax from Swansea) but still quiet.

It was packed going back east

 

[Greenback]

Some of the trains are much quieter than others. I've been on some night trains from Fishguard where there passenger numbers have just about made it into double figures, at other times there have been at least 50-60 hanging around waiting for the train that I could see.

 

[Sheridan]

A couple of years ago I was booked on an afternoon sailing from Dublin to Holyhead with a suitable connecting service on to Chester.
Unfortunately due to weather the crossing was cancelled and I was put on the later service, arriving after the last train.
About 50 of us spent four hours or so in the station waiting for the first train - thankfully the WH Smith in the station stayed open until 1am (I'm not sure if it still does) so everyone could get some supplies. It was still a pretty unpleasant experience!

 

[krus_aragon]

A couple of years ago I was booked on an afternoon sailing from Dublin to Holyhead with a suitable connecting service on to Chester.
Unfortunately due to weather the crossing was cancelled and I was put on the later service, arriving after the last train.
About 50 of us spent four hours or so in the station waiting for the first train - thankfully the WH Smith in the station stayed open until 1am (I'm not sure if it still does) so everyone could get some supplies. It was still a pretty unpleasant experience!

I was in Holyhead on a Saturday in May (on non-ferry business) waiting for the 1921 departure, and at ~7pm WH Smiths were already closed.

 

[6Gman]

I was in Holyhead on a Saturday in May (on non-ferry business) waiting for the 1921 departure, and at ~7pm WH Smiths were already closed.

When I was a lad (1960s) Holyhead was one of the very, very few stations to offer a 24 hour refreshment room.

 

[Bob Ames]

A couple of years ago I was booked on an afternoon sailing from Dublin to Holyhead with a suitable connecting service on to Chester.
Unfortunately due to weather the crossing was cancelled and I was put on the later service, arriving after the last train.
About 50 of us spent four hours or so in the station waiting for the first train - thankfully the WH Smith in the station stayed open until 1am (I'm not sure if it still does) so everyone could get some supplies. It was still a pretty unpleasant experience!

Ghastly. It is ridiculous that you had to wait 8 hours in Dublin and then another 4 hours at Holyhead! They ought to put displaced passengers on other ferries, even if means using other ferry companies or a car-only ferry (e.g. Epsilon). Swift did the same to me last year, although it meant only a 5 hour wait at Holyhead (but hey, at least I had Hayley for company ). Personally, I would take Ulysses every time (less risk of cancellation and friendlier staff), but the lack of an afternoon sailing from Dublin makes it useless for me.

 

[berneyarms]

Ghastly. It is ridiculous that you had to wait 8 hours in Dublin and then another 4 hours at Holyhead! They ought to put displaced passengers on other ferries, even if means using other ferry companies or a car-only ferry (e.g. Epsilon). Swift did the same to me last year, although it meant only a 5 hour wait at Holyhead (but hey, at least I had Hayley for company ). Personally, I would take Ulysses every time (less risk of cancellation and friendlier staff), but the lack of an afternoon sailing from Dublin makes it useless for me.

Two years ago the Epsilon did not exist on the route, nor did the Stena Nordica take foot passengers, so I don't think alternatives existed. If it were me, I'd have insisted on waiting until the Ulysses sailing the next morning rather than sitting in Holyhead for four hours.

Since earlier this year there is the afternoon option of the Stena Superfast X,
Depart Dublin 15:10
Arrive Holyhead 18:40

Connects into the train at 19:21 to Chester and Shrewsbury (connections to Manchester and Birmingham).

 

[Phil from Mon]

When I was a lad (1960s) Holyhead was one of the very, very few stations to offer a 24 hour refreshment room.

I remember that many times waiting for the old 3.00 ferry (the Hibernian if I remember) on the way to rugby internationals. Very welcome at that time in the morning.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Trust me - a nightmare to plan - from my experiences with the 2004 WCML recast - the tendancy of the various shipping lines to stress the need for seamless connections - followed by their sometimes short term (economy based) changes to their sea schduls s made things very tough for the Welsh and WCML operators. (and look at Stranraer) ....

Basically - the market dynamics have changed so much from the classic and well established patterns - thanks to Ryanair , Easyjet and so on. A very modest niche market now unfortunately - thought the old tran / sea interfaces for the passenger even in the "glory" days could be a gruesome experience.

 

[Bob Ames]

Since earlier this year there is the afternoon option of the Stena Superfast X...

The Superfast X - now there's a ship with a history! Didn't know it was now working this route, cheers for the info!

 

[gordonthemoron]

my main gripe about Holyhead at present is the need to use a bus to/from the ferry and enter through the car deck. Harwich is so much better

 

[craigybagel]

my main gripe about Holyhead at present is the need to use a bus to/from the ferry and enter through the car deck. Harwich is so much better

It'd be a very long walk from the terminal to the berth without those busses though! The walk to the HSS was bad enough.

Sadly, even car passengers are low priority on the Holyhead ferries these days, never mind the relatively tiny amount of foot passengers using the service. Freight is where the money is. On the plus side it does mean we have the largest ferries ever seen on the route now which is useful for those who make a habit of crossing the Irish Sea in Winter.

Personally I'd rather put up with the bus transfer at Holyhead then go through Fishguard - whilst the transfer from train to ferry is seamless there, and there is still a night train,every other part of the crossing is better at Holyhead.

 

[Greenback]

My preference for Fishguard is largely due to geography! It's much closer to where I am and I usually visit Wexford, Waterford and Cork rather than Dublin.

 

[berneyarms]

my main gripe about Holyhead at present is the need to use a bus to/from the ferry and enter through the car deck. Harwich is so much better

Given that the ferries use the outer harbour it would be a tad tricky to walk it.

 

[James H]

my main gripe about Holyhead at present is the need to use a bus to/from the ferry and enter through the car deck. Harwich is so much better

The gangway at Harwich collapsed last year and all passengers are bussed to/from the car deck there too.