Poor External Condition of FCC Thameslink Stock

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TheJRB

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Whilst at Blackfriars the other day, practically every observed train had some sort of graffiti on it. One of them was 319217 'Brighton' which honestly looks like it hasn't been cleaned since I saw it at Brighton back in November. Even a 377 (which I must say usually are clean looking) had its first carriage completely covered in graffiti.

What a disgrace especially at a time when we have visitors from all around the world using our transport network. Where are they keeping these trains that causes them to get in to this state (Bellingham sidings aren't that big!) and why is little being done? The ex-Southern 319s have to be the worst of all. A woman I spoke to who was waiting for her train said that she thought it would put people off travelling! Needless to say it doesn't leave a good impression of First Capital Connect or the transport network in general.
 
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HSTEd

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why is little being done?

The problem we have is that graffiti on the outside of the carriage does not really have any operational effect, and to keep ahead of the vandalism problem would cost a very large amount of money.

Who will pay for it?
 

Nym

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The problem we have is that graffiti on the outside of the carriage does not really have any operational effect, and to keep ahead of the vandalism problem would cost a very large amount of money.

Who will pay for it?

We could call for volunteer snipers and then all it is is the cost of ammunition and the capital cost of the rifles?

It would also cut unemployment at the same time ;)

On a more serious note, this is what happens when you dump stuff in sidings overnight rather than ya know, depots... There's also nothing to stop fences being put up around sidings..
 

TheJRB

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The problem we have is that graffiti on the outside of the carriage does not really have any operational effect, and to keep ahead of the vandalism problem would cost a very large amount of money.

Who will pay for it?
On London Underground, you rarely ever see graffiti and I get the impression that it doesn't stay around for long either. I don't think they have a massive surplus of stock either. What's so different and could a leaf be taken out of LU's book?

Aside from the graffiti and other vandalism, is there any particular reason that little external care has been given to the ex-Southern 319s apart from the application of FCC logos?

On a more serious note, this is what happens when you dump stuff in sidings overnight rather than ya know, depots... There's also nothing to stop fences being put up around sidings..
Even the fences seem to be little deterrent. I just don't really understand where FCC is getting all the trouble. I feel sorry for FCC but it's something other TOCs must face. I've seen graffiti on Southeastern stock but I must say it is rare to see it.
 

N Levers

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We could call for volunteer snipers and then all it is is the cost of ammunition and the capital cost of the rifles?

It would also cut unemployment at the same time ;)

On a more serious note, this is what happens when you dump stuff in sidings overnight rather than ya know, depots... There's also nothing to stop fences being put up around sidings..

Electric fences would do nicely. That and Bear Traps. And maybe some 64 bit computer game spikes...

Toc's don't have capacity to ensure every unit is grafitti free.
 

Aictos

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Has anyone thought it might be something to do with the fact that for health and safety reasons, the chemicals that used to be used to remove graffiti are no longer allowed to be used?

Just a thought, guys!
 

westcoaster

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This is a real problem at the moment, 99.99% of the time the units are hit overnight and weekends at Bellingham (319's) and Ashford/ Preston park (377's), when you consider 6/8 units can and are done most nights it soon adds up, FCC were stopped from cleaning off the graffiti by the h&s brigade, due to the chemicals used. This has now been resolved so units should now be getting a clean up as and when. I really think the use of Bellingham paint emporium should be limited to daytime use only.
 

jnjkerbin

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TheJRB:1169743 said:
What a disgrace especially at a time when we have visitors from all around the world using our transport network.
Maybe to make them feel at home?
From what I've seen elsewhere Britain is sadly not the only place blighted by this.
 

michael769

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Has anyone thought it might be something to do with the fact that for health and safety reasons, the chemicals that used to be used to remove graffiti are no longer allowed to be used?

Safe chemicals (Derived from fruit juice and milk) are now available and are in widespread use by councils throughout the country.
 

Yew

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Maybe it's passengers getting revenge forfcc's harsh stance on ticket irregularities :D
 

D365

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It's not just FCC and British railways which suffer; I've seen a number of German S-Bahn trains covered in it. I've seen some in the same 'artwork' for a number of years!

I imagine that it must be difficult though; FCC is desperately trying to get maximum use out of their stock with as little downtime as possible. I doubt there's going to be a major clean under them though; perhaps the new franchisee will if they revinyl the trains.
 

b0b

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isn't another factor being that the 319's are extremely intensively used?
 

Class377/5

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This is a real problem at the moment, 99.99% of the time the units are hit overnight and weekends at Bellingham (319's) and Ashford/ Preston park (377's), when you consider 6/8 units can and are done most nights it soon adds up, FCC were stopped from cleaning off the graffiti by the h&s brigade, due to the chemicals used. This has now been resolved so units should now be getting a clean up as and when. I really think the use of Bellingham paint emporium should be limited to daytime use only.

They still only allowed to clean the units in Cauldwell. Wasn't the H&S that stopped it but local authorities due to a problem.

Cauldwell has its hands full keeping the trains working hence the back log of graffiti.

Multiple units have been hit at Bellingham during the day, in fact one unit was hit while doing a station stop on the Catford Loop so there is little you can do without massive costs.
 

westcoaster

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They still only allowed to clean the units in Cauldwell. Wasn't the H&S that stopped it but local authorities due to a problem.

Cauldwell has its hands full keeping the trains working hence the back log of graffiti.

Multiple units have been hit at Bellingham during the day, in fact one unit was hit while doing a station stop on the Catford Loop so there is little you can do without massive costs.



cauldwell can only wash units not clean them, the only place on the TL route that can clean off graffiti is bedford carriage sdgs, or selhurst cleaning shed. Its all to do with the waste solution being dispossed of correctly.
 

Class377/5

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cauldwell can only wash units not clean them, the only place on the TL route that can clean off graffiti is bedford carriage sdgs, or selhurst cleaning shed. Its all to do with the waste solution being dispossed of correctly.

There a directive banning cleaning it off in Bedford Carriage sidings hence why Cauldwell have to do it, why it's not bring done. That's what we've been told. And going of the list of units affected its quite a few.

Selhurst don't clean our units, no arrangement I believe.
 

MCR247

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The UK is pretty good when it comes to graffiti. You see much worse elsewhere especially when trains AREN'T concerned
 

aformeruser

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It's not just FCC and British railways which suffer; I've seen a number of German S-Bahn trains covered in it. I've seen some in the same 'artwork' for a number of years!

I was thinking of German S-Bahn stock as well!

I think generally in this country we do a better job of removing graffiti than they do in some European countries. Not seeing graffiti on older local trains in France, Italy and Germany seems unusual.
 

Class377/5

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FCC 377s quite often on 1/2/3 cleaning shed at Selhurst. I assume they're being cleaned, bit unusual to stable in there otherwise.

That's the 377/2 in FCC livery not the 377/5 as non are booked to go to Selhurst.
 

ChristopherJ

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Yesterday evening a 319/4 passed me at Honor Oak Park which had approximately 1/3 of the rear driving carriage vandalised.
 

lewisf

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When it's removed you can see the scarring. I saw a completely revinyled 319 pass through Wimbledon the over day. I thought I was seeing things as I've never seen a 319 so shiny and clean!
 

12CSVT

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It appears that the only way FCC can make their units look respectable is by regular re-vinyling. Not sure why the ex-Southern units are still in green livery as they were transferred to FCC over 3 years ago.
 

387star

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FCC livery is ghastly anyway. Might be easier for them if they were painted?

The ex Southern units were supposed to recieve advertising livery but only two have been treated.

The 319/2s don't look bad inside but the 319/0s are appalling and it is like stepping back in time to the 1990s when you board one! (grafitti, widespread window etching...)

Most London based TOCs have done very well presentation wise aside from FCC, Connex and NXEA
 

dk1

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Whenever i go to Belgium i am horrified by the level of grafitti. Those awful trains that work to Brussells Airport are always covered. Whatever image does that portray? Makes me feel very proud of our Airport expresses.

Deppressing :(
 

TheJRB

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Whenever i go to Belgium i am horrified by the level of grafitti. Those awful trains that work to Brussells Airport are always covered. Whatever image does that portray? Makes me feel very proud of our Airport expresses.

Deppressing :(
I'm sure we do have it better than a lot of other countries but that's probably why it comes as more of a surprise when you do see it. I agree about the airport express trains; Heathrow Express 332s have to be some of the shiniest most modern looking units on the network (even better when you consider they're fourteen years old).

I never intended this to be a dig at FCC and now it's clear that they're being prevented from using methods of cleaning which were used in the past.

Slightly away from the original topic, but they must be getting a major overhaul when they eventually transfer away from Thameslink. I always get the feeling there's some scepticism around whether or not they actually will get reused, but they've got good enough innards, no?
 

ChiefPlanner

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Belgium is particularly bad for graffitti - the Dutch seem to have a grip on it , ditto the Italians (which used to be very bad)

I do sympathise with FCC on this plague - but the options for "hand bashing" units (i.e bucket and brush without chemicals , or just running them through washing plants several times) , must surely be an option to get rid of the road dirt on the 319's. Is the Cricklewood washer not working ?
 

cjohnson

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The excuse used to be that due to the Core blockade units couldn't get to depots etc and be regularly cleaned. Now that the route is open all days and weekends, however, FCC may have to come up with another reason...
 

D365

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Over-intensive use of stock? I'd give them just a bit of slack, but it's not presenting our railways well.
 

Class377/5

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Belgium is particularly bad for graffitti - the Dutch seem to have a grip on it , ditto the Italians (which used to be very bad)

I do sympathise with FCC on this plague - but the options for "hand bashing" units (i.e bucket and brush without chemicals , or just running them through washing plants several times) , must surely be an option to get rid of the road dirt on the 319's. Is the Cricklewood washer not working ?

You don't get graffiti off by a washer.

The excuse used to be that due to the Core blockade units couldn't get to depots etc and be regularly cleaned. Now that the route is open all days and weekends, however, FCC may have to come up with another reason...

There is another reason as stated earlier in thread. Very good reason for it just not public that's all. Situation has changed and there is less (only one) place they can clean the units now making it harder than it used to be.

Over-intensive use of stock? I'd give them just a bit of slack, but it's not presenting our railways well.

Fleet is that tight you sent one to clean and you'd have to cancel at least four trains mimimium. What's better, no train or graffied train? Bet most passengers would say the latter.
 

westcoaster

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There a directive banning cleaning it off in Bedford Carriage sidings hence why Cauldwell have to do it, why it's not bring done. That's what we've been told. And going of the list of units affected its quite a few.

Selhurst don't clean our units, no arrangement I believe.

Read what I posted above the issue at Bedford carriage sidings has been resolved, Cauldwell CAN NOT remove graffiti full stop ( unless the unit is revinyled) as there is no waste collection drains. There was an interim agreement to use selhurst to clean units while work was being done on units (377's).
 
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