Poor GWR Marketing of Improved Services - M4 Congestion.

[Dai Corner]

I think it is generally accepted in South Wales and the Bristol area - and by GWR and TfW - that the Cardiff-Newport-Bristol axis needs looking at but until GWR can free more Turbos from the Thames Valley routes when 769s finally arrive, then any frequency/capacity increases are going to have to wait for a while.

The limiting factor on the Temple Meads route was congestion between Filton and Temple Meads. This is being addressed by the four-tracking and remodelling of Bristol East Junction. GWR have increased capacity by replacing the 150s with four car HSTs and 158s with

Apparently even changing the timetable of the single bus that ran through Yatton such that it connected with trains at Yatton station would have been illegal under competition rules because First happened to be the only company running trains that served the station and the only company running a bus through Yatton. This was shortly after First took over the local routes from Wessex Trains, but I'm not aware that any of the laws have since changed.
I'm very much in favour of criminalising anti-competitive behaviour, but buses and trains should not be competing against each other.

Yet the bus to Burnham on Sea connects quite well with the trains at Weston-super-Mare.

 

[jayah]

Councils are told by the government to find sites for lots of new houses but the government is rather less keen on providing money to link those homes with anywhere by means other than roads - or giving the power and money to regions to set and fund transport priorities for themselves.

As for the idea that First Group could integrate bus and rail services, which country have you been living in since 1987, when bus services outside London were deregulated? Thus stuffing up integrated systems such as prevailed on Tyneside linking buses and the Metro.

First would probably get taken to court for anti-competitive practices if they tried it in the current situation - and fear of rival bus operators moving in on their routes would probably mean they wouldn't even contemplate it in the first place.

I think it is generally accepted in South Wales and the Bristol area - and by GWR and TfW - that the Cardiff-Newport-Bristol axis needs looking at but until GWR can free more Turbos from the Thames Valley routes when 769s finally arrive, then any frequency/capacity increases are going to have to wait for a while.

The government should not be providing loss-making links to new out of town housing sprawling across greenfields far and wide. The housing needs to be built around existing infrastructure and existing routes integrated between modes - the impossibility of serving places like Burnham on Sea without Highbridge becoming a huge car park, being one example.

 

[jayah]

The other problem you have trying to get people out of their cars is convenience.

Currently I have a 40 minute dive to and from work - no public transport but even if there was.

Last night I decided to go to the gym on the way home - that is in town B in between my destination and origin
Tonight I want to go to the supermarket - in town C in the opposite direction to B still in roughly the same direction. Even if I went by public transport, I have no intention of struggling with shopping.

Thursday I want to do soomething totally different on the way home.

If I went by public transport I'd either have to take a lot more time doing all those things - which I'm not prepared to do as I have a life and don't want to spend my spare time waiting on transport

Or Id have to go home and then get the car anyway.

Commuting is not just about getting from home to work.

What you are illustrating is planning failure. So much employment, retail and leisure is out of town it is very difficult for any public transport network even in London to service more than one of those links, let alone all the the whole series.

 

[jayah]

The limiting factor on the Temple Meads route was congestion between Filton and Temple Meads. This is being addressed by the four-tracking and remodelling of Bristol East Junction. GWR have increased capacity by replacing the 150s with four car HSTs and 158s with

Yet the bus to Burnham on Sea connects quite well with the trains at Weston-super-Mare.

There are plenty of examples of bus and train timetables being coordinated. The idea that doing so between the same owning group is somehow illegal and anti-corrosive smells like a conspiracy theory.

A bus from Weston to Burnham probably takes all afternoon?

 

[Dai Corner]

A bus from Weston to Burnham probably takes all afternoon?

About an hour. It's an interesting ride in an open-topper in the summer through the caravan sites and holiday camps.

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/Weston_Service_20_WEB.pdf

You can walk part of the old railway from Burnham to Highbridge and get the train back to Weston.

 

[Bikeman78]

Fortunately this one is easy: electrification!

Easy for the marketing people too: fast; modern; clean; green.

Only a few miles left to do as well. You'd save a minute on Filton Bank for starters.

 

[Bikeman78]

Anyone commuting from the suburbs and satellites of Cardiff or Newport to Bristol or vice versa (and there are plenty of each though more of the former for socio-economic reasons) will find that it takes roughly 100% longer to do this by bus+train than driving. Thus turning a manageable commute into an intolerable one.

Agree with this. On the bike I can leave the house 30 minutes before the train departs, any time of day. On the bus I need to allow 45-60 minutes, depending on the time of day. Cardiff very helpfully demolished the bus station which was within spitting distance of Cardiff Central. Also inbound buses terminate near the castle. Some carry on straight away. Some wait for several minutes before carrying on to the next stop that is fairly close to Central station. It's probably quicker for me to get the number 30 to Newport, although they've moved the bus station further away from the railway station there as well.

 

[Bikeman78]

Actually parking your car at Newport, Cardiff Central or Severn Tunnel is a major negative to commuting. That’s before you even look at the actual reliability of the service, and your other end journey to your place of work.

A 12hr stay at Newport or Cardiff Central carpark if you can find a space, is many hundreds of pounds a week.

As for the M4 I’m not convinced the congestion is caused by the tunnel in its own right, it’s I think the faux 50mph speed from Coldar to Tradger Park.

It amazing how both directions slow to a stand then crawl the length of the “limit”.

But hey it’s all about reducing pollution isn’t it, don’t the WAG realise more and more people are coming off at Magor, then using the southern domestic link road clogging up south Newport causing more pollution across a greater area!

The rush hour tailbacks existed long before the 50 mph limit started. There was no chance of getting to a speed anywhere near 50. The problem is that people drive along lane 1, which is relatively empty, and then squeeze into lane 2 at the last possible moment. Either because they want to jump the queue or because they are not local and so they don't know any different until they get to the signpost for the junction.

 

[Bikeman78]

I am pleased that parking is expensive at Cardiff Central & Newport stations as it deters people from driving their cars into the centre of these congested cities. What they should be doing is using the bus or the local train network - something which the South East Wales Metro hopes to improve on the present local train system.

A system that might exist in 10 years time is no help to anyone now. For a kick off, I'd like a bus every 10 minutes, more or less from start to end of service. At the moment it's every 15 minutes during the day dropping to every 30 minutes after 18:30. Also they need to stop right outside Central or Queen St stations. Currently they don't stop particularly close to either and you have to cross a busy road to get to the bus stops.

 

[Dai Corner]

A system that might exist in 10 years time is no help to anyone now. For a kick off, I'd like a bus every 10 minutes, more or less from start to end of service. At the moment it's every 15 minutes during the day dropping to every 30 minutes after 18:30. Also they need to stop right outside Central or Queen St stations. Currently they don't stop particularly close to either and you have to cross a busy road to get to the bus stops.

I'd like a bus every 10 mins from round the corner from my house (not down my street, I don't want the noise, pollution or people in queues dropping litter). It should go to the station, bus station, my mate's house, my girlfriend's house, my mum's house, my three favourite supermarkets, my four favourite coffee shops, pubs and restaurants, my GP, the hospital and park. If I wasn't retired it should go to my workplace too.

Meanwhile, I have my car.

 

[Bikeman78]

Anyone can cheery pick a journey where the car is the only practical means of transport. The problem with individual anecdotes is they are unlikely to apply to everyone. Is everyone that drives into a city center in the situation where the car is the only way to do the journey? I very much doubt it, and it is those who have a viable alternative public transport option who we should try to stimulate to switch. Ultimately, having everyone drive one car each into a city center is a horribly inefficient use of space.

I don't understand why people in the UK are so reluctant to cycle. I ride to work every day, it takes 20-25 minutes. The car would knock up to five minutes off that at 0600 or 2200 (depending on luck with traffic lights) but no chance of beating that at the 1400 shift change. There must be loads of people that live and work in Cardiff and could realisitically cycle. Which in turn would reduce congestion for other people.

 

[Scousemouse]

Look at the weather for much of the last three months. that might tell you why people don't like to cycle.

 

[Mintona]

I don't understand why people in the UK are so reluctant to cycle. I ride to work every day, it takes 20-25 minutes. The car would knock up to five minutes off that at 0600 or 2200 (depending on luck with traffic lights) but no chance of beating that at the 1400 shift change. There must be loads of people that live and work in Cardiff and could realisitically cycle. Which in turn would reduce congestion for other people.

It would probably take me about five hours to cycle to work

I visit Cardiff quite regularly but it’s just occurred to me that I’ve never even considered using the train. Weird.

 

[HowardGWR]

It would probably take me about five hours to cycle to work

I visit Cardiff quite regularly but it’s just occurred to me that I’ve never even considered using the train. Weird.

"Busman's holiday" syndrome perhaps?

 

[Envoy]

It would probably take me about five hours to cycle to work

I visit Cardiff quite regularly but it’s just occurred to me that I’ve never even considered using the train. Weird.

Well, if you do go to Cardiff by train you should note that through ticket prices from the south-west can be very expensive. Splitting ticket at Taunton usually reduces the price. Also check out at:>
https://www.traintickets.com

 

[Scousemouse]

Even if the planning was better I still wouldn't do anything other than drive.

I don't want to haul around my gym bag with me to work, or my work bag with me to the gym. And carry my shopping bags with me everywhere.

I can leave them in the boot of the car and only take what I need.

Convenience is key for me.

 

[al78]

I don't understand why people in the UK are so reluctant to cycle.

1. It takes physical effort.
2. You are exposed to the (poor) weather.
3. You are more vulnerable to accidents, which fuels the perception that cycling is dangerous.
4. The road network is (largely) optimised to get motorists to where they want to go as fast as possible, which externalises costs by making parts of the road network hostile and intimidating for cyclists.

The local authority's answer to (4) is to build crap cycle facilities which require the cyclist to take a much longer route, or require them to give way at every single entry/exit point of a roundabout instead of being part of the traffic flow and having priority. Cycle facilities also have the disadvantage of being used by pedestrians walking five abreast at 2 mph, pedestrians engrossed in a smartphone and walking in the exact position to make it impossible for a cyclist to overtake. or dog walkers with extendible leads moving at 2 cm/second whilst their dog sniffs every square inch of the path. With cycling, you are more exposed to careless, thoughtless people, some of whom have the capability of seriously injuring or killing you with that carelessness.

You pretty much get punished in some way for trying to make responsible lifestyle choices.

 

[Llanigraham]

It would probably take me about five hours to cycle to work

I visit Cardiff quite regularly but it’s just occurred to me that I’ve never even considered using the train. Weird.

We're the opposite. If going down for the day I invariably park at Whitchurch and get the train from there, and if going down for a weekend we will stay in Barry or surroundings and get the Vale line into town. Don't ever think of taking the car or the bus in.

 

[Bikeman78]

Look at the weather for much of the last three months. that might tell you why people don't like to cycle.

I ride five miles to work and five miles home every working day. It's suprising how rarely I get rained on.

 

[Bikeman78]

1. It takes physical effort.
2. You are exposed to the (poor) weather.
3. You are more vulnerable to accidents, which fuels the perception that cycling is dangerous.
4. The road network is (largely) optimised to get motorists to where they want to go as fast as possible, which externalises costs by making parts of the road network hostile and intimidating for cyclists.

The local authority's answer to (4) is to build crap cycle facilities which require the cyclist to take a much longer route, or require them to give way at every single entry/exit point of a roundabout instead of being part of the traffic flow and having priority. Cycle facilities also have the disadvantage of being used by pedestrians walking five abreast at 2 mph, pedestrians engrossed in a smartphone and walking in the exact position to make it impossible for a cyclist to overtake. or dog walkers with extendible leads moving at 2 cm/second whilst their dog sniffs every square inch of the path. With cycling, you are more exposed to careless, thoughtless people, some of whom have the capability of seriously injuring or killing you with that carelessness.

You pretty much get punished in some way for trying to make responsible lifestyle choices.

Regarding your last paragraph, I ignore all such systems and stay on the road. If the people that want to get to the next red light five seconds earlier don't like it, tough luck. Also a fair chunk of my daily route is in a bus lane. So the only idiots that get really close are taxis.

It makes me chuckle, the number of people that live closer to work than me, that complain about being late because they were stuck in traffic or the train was late. I've never been more than a minute or two late.