Poor quality of destination displays

[Man of Kent]

I think it is possible. The new E200 MMCs trentbarton have seem to change the via points as they go along the villager route and I haven't seen the driver touch the controller to change it manually.

Transdev had this capability the best part of 15 years ago. I particularly remember noticing it on the Mainline group of routes around Burnley, eliminating points already served.

 

[py_megapixel]

Thanks. I stand corrected - though it does seem to confirm that the front red display I have seen on very rare occasions is in fact not lawful.

Presumably also the Sheffield trams, which display a red icon to indicate they are out of service, are technically not compliant, though I doubt it causes much of a problem in practice.

 

[GoneSouth]

I've seen them, I've also seen red, but displaying green anywhere on a road vehicle (aside from the very unusual flashing green light a non-emergency-services doctor can display on top) or red anywhere but the rear is a Construction and Use offence. That they haven't been pulled up for it just says a lot about inadequate policing.

Western Greyhound (now long gone after their mysterious fires) had lots of green buses of all kinds running around Cornwall for years with green destination displays. looked rather nice actually compared to the regular orange.

For me my biggest gripe have been those who squeeze as much information on one screen as possible to the point where it's very tiny and unreadable until you are actually close to the bus.

Agreed

It's just laziness instead of setting up a readable scroll line or multiple pages for via points etc.

Not necessarily, you’d be amazed at how difficult some people can make technology. We had digital signs in an office I worked in once, nothing to do with me officially but I was the only person out of about 30 who could make the thing display what it was supposed to be displaying. Everybody else just gave up and wanted to write it on large A3 sheets. Very professional!!!

The higher end equipment you are on about is what some are having to get anyway so they can handle the next stop displays that are being foisted onto operators, drivers and passengers alike.

Bit unfair. I wouldn’t call it foisted if it provides a valuable service for the passengers who use the bus.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think it is possible. The new E200 MMCs trentbarton have seem to change the via points as they go along the villager route and I haven't seen the driver touch the controller to change it manually.

It is possible. Here the Bus Vannin displays change entirely. Outside of Douglas the buses north from the airport are shown as “Onchan via Douglas”. When they reach the first stop inside the city boundary they change to show the specific Onchan estate they are heading for and also state via promenade.

 

[dosxuk]

Presumably also the Sheffield trams, which display a red icon to indicate they are out of service, are technically not compliant, though I doubt it causes much of a problem in practice.

From the legislation (link above)

Exemptions—Tramcars

9A. Parts II to IV of these Regulations do not apply to tramcars.

 

[RJ]

Re green LEDs, they are in use on some of Seaford and District’s vehicles.

X18 SEA Seaford and District

Bus: Volvo B7TL/Alexander ALX400 Company: Seaford and District Registration: X18 SEA Route: Rail Replacement Bus Service New: 2000/2001 Seaford and District Volvo/ALX400 is seen doing rail replacement from Eastbourne to Hastings on 15th February 2015

www.flickr.com

 

[co-tr-paul]

Here in Cornwall I thought it stupid that almost all vehicles have orange displays which is useless. When we finally got some vehicles that were actually new, white was specified which is so much better esp in dark. Alas, new vehicles here are rare !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here in Cornwall I thought it stupid that almost all vehicles have orange displays which is useless. When we finally got some vehicles that were actually new, white was specified which is so much better esp in dark. Alas, new vehicles here are rare !

Am I the only one that finds the orange easier to read than the white, which seems to cause much more glare, particularly on my spectacles?

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

Here in Cornwall I thought it stupid that almost all vehicles have orange displays which is useless. When we finally got some vehicles that were actually new, white was specified which is so much better esp in dark. Alas, new vehicles here are rare !

White displays are great until it's foggy , misty or snowing then you can see them

 

[Hyebone]

Am I the only one that finds the orange easier to read than the white, which seems to cause much more glare, particularly on my spectacles?

I agree.

Orange displays also tend to show up much better on photographs in a wider range of lighting conditions compared to the white ones.

 

[Statto]

I agree.

Orange displays also tend to show up much better on photographs in a wider range of lighting conditions compared to the white ones.

Think the manufacturer has done away with the orange displays, i've noticed recently some buses that had orange displays have had them replaced by the white displays, most likely due to faultily display.

Here's one example Arriva Merseyside Wright Streetlite 6000, with the old orange display

Arriva Merseyside Wright Streetlite SM15 HVW 6000

Explore Jon David Houghton's 26531 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Now been refitted with the white display

Arriva Merseyside SM15 HVW

Pictured in Birkenhead is this Crossriver branded, Arriva Merseyside owned, Wrightbus Streetlite DF. It's registered SM15 HVW with the fleet number of 6000 and is captured working the 492 Birkenhead Noctorum circular service. This particular vehicle gained a front white LED display in late 2023.

www.flickr.com

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other thing about orange is that because it's the only thing that's orange on the front of the bus (aside from the indicators, but they're much lower down and not very bright) your eyes are easily drawn to it, whereas it takes longer to find and focus on a white display because the far more prominent headlamps and marker lights are also white, as is often part of the livery.

I felt the same when TfL changed from yellow printed blinds to white.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do think white looks much better, and as I said in another thread, the Metrolink trams would look much smarter if the external displays were changed to white to match the new Bee Network buses they run alongside.

 

[Megafuss]

The way Go North East use Newcastle City Centre street names on some routes rather than "Newcastle" and/or "City Centre" really annoys me. Are customers just expected to know where Market Street or Eldon Square are?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The way Go North East use Newcastle City Centre street names on some routes rather than "Newcastle" and/or "City Centre" really annoys me. Are customers just expected to know where Market Street or Eldon Square are?

Buses are generally local transport for local people, so the target market indeed knows where those places are and will find it useful to know exactly where the bus terminates. See also stuff like Metrolink having a destination of "Piccadilly" rather than "Manchester Piccadilly", because the former is pretty implicit.

 

[PG]

Buses are generally local transport for local people, so the target market indeed knows where those places are and will find it useful to know exactly where the bus terminates. See also stuff like Metrolink having a destination of "Piccadilly" rather than "Manchester Piccadilly", because the former is pretty implicit.

Taken to the extreme in years gone by, when
Bus Station
was all that was on the display! Cut down on the cost of printed blinds.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Buses are generally local transport for local people, so the target market indeed knows where those places are and will find it useful to know exactly where the bus terminates. See also stuff like Metrolink having a destination of "Piccadilly" rather than "Manchester Piccadilly", because the former is pretty implicit.

Also on many of the routes (certainly the ones local to me) the destination display changes during the journey. On rural sections of route the display would specify Newcastle, but once into Gateshead would become more specific, similar to the Manx example above.

And in fairness, the distinction between the two is quite handy at some stops! All Newcastle-bound services at Gateshead Interchange serve the same stop, but they can go to quite different locations within the city centre (if you're going to Grainger Street and that area then you'd have a fair walk if you got an Eldon Square bus, and likewise for Haymarket if you got a Market Street bus). Given the sheer number of different routes on that corridor it would be far more difficult to force regular users to memorise where every service terminates in town.

 

[moogal]

Am I the only one that finds the orange easier to read than the white, which seems to cause much more glare, particularly on my spectacles?

I find the orange displays get very dim as they age, so can be extremely hard to read, especially in daylight.

The modern buses that Arriva use here on the F70/F77 and local town services have white displays and they're all extremely clear, and it's very noticeable when an older vehicle with an orange LED display is substituted that it's less legible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find the orange displays get very dim as they age, so can be extremely hard to read, especially in daylight.

The modern buses that Arriva use here on the F70/F77 and local town services have white displays and they're all extremely clear, and it's very noticeable when an older vehicle with an orange LED display is substituted that it's less legible.

Interestingly it's that higher brightness I find in part makes it harder to read - it creates glare and excess reflection.

 

[JKP]

Taken to the extreme in years gone by, when
Bus Station
was all that was on the display! Cut down on the cost of printed blinds.

East Anglian operators were bad for simply displaying Service. Smaller operators throughout the country often never bothered with destinations, simply displaying Private all day everyday on their coaches.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

I find the orange displays get very dim as they age, so can be extremely hard to read, especially in daylight.

The modern buses that Arriva use here on the F70/F77 and local town services have white displays and they're all extremely clear, and it's very noticeable when an older vehicle with an orange LED display is substituted that it's less legible.

It's not the display , it's a lux sensor fault not picking up the light levels and keeping the display in a dull full day light mode

 

[Christmas]

McGill's West electric fleet is terrible. As the bus is approaching all that can be seen is a very bright blur. The white LED displays are far too bright, almost as bright as the headlights which also seem to be 9n permanently.
The ultimate destination is now only displayed at McGill's and I don't seem to see any via points anymore. A real pity. I think this was one of Hornby's bright ideas, pun intended.

 

[YX73OUB]

I think it is possible. The new E200 MMCs trentbarton have seem to change the via points as they go along the villager route and I haven't seen the driver touch the controller to change it manually.

It is possible - and the driver doesn't change it. It all runs off ticketer which fires a message to the Aesys display when a certain point is passed. Only vehicles with Aesys destinations have this capability. These destinations also change automatically when the trip is set from the starting point on ticketer.

Mobitec destinations are changed manually as are the Hanover ones fitted to the coaches.

McKenna brothers will pretty much only supply white mobitec destinations now.

trentbarton use green circles (surrounded by another coloured circle dependent on the route branding) on some 'circular' services, the previous red circular services being replaced by green to comply with the legislation change.

 

[Simon75]

Taken to the extreme in years gone by, when
Bus Station
was all that was on the display! Cut down on the cost of printed blinds.

Or Town Service

 

[Tetchytyke]

The way Go North East use Newcastle City Centre street names on some routes rather than "Newcastle" and/or "City Centre" really annoys me. Are customers just expected to know where Market Street or Eldon Square are?

As with the example here in the Isle of Man, IIRC the Go North East services will show Newcastle via xxxx when they are outside of the Gateshead boundary. They will then change to the specific destination in Newcastle when they get into Gateshead.

Am I the only one that finds the orange easier to read than the white, which seems to cause much more glare, particularly on my spectacles?

I think it depends on the number of pixels more than colour. On the older lower-resolution LED boards I find the orange easier to read than white, but on the new high-resolution boards (like the ones used in London) it's easier to read the white ones.

 

[Yorkshireguy]

Stagecoach East Scotland has some interesting variation. The 99 on its own has at least 3 ways of showing Dundee (Dundee, Dundee via Leuchars, Dundee Railway Station) and even an odd "St Andrews via Dundee" occasionally on the return. The main destination also seems to flicker in size or font for a single frame or so every few seconds. Only some routes (most of Perth and newer Arbroath routes?) are using the newer Stagecoach display font despite most other Stagecoach regions managing. These displays must be hard to manage and deploy to, or do East Scotland not have high-enough resolution displays? Xplore have changed fonts multiple times with bold, clear destinations and can seemingly deploy to most of the fleet in a day or so.

The ultimate destination is now only displayed at McGill's and I don't seem to see any via points anymore. A real pity. I think this was one of Hornby's bright ideas, pun intended.

Going to stick my neck out on the line and say I don't mind not having via destinations as it makes the destination more readable from further back, which provides faster certainty. If I'm unfamiliar with the route, I've already looked on Google or at a timetable with the bus's ultimate destination so I know what to look out for (though that's obviously not the same for everyone). Via points are small and often moving so half the time can only be read seconds before you could ask the driver instead. For wayfinding, bus stop information is the bigger issue.

 

[GoneSouth]

Buses are generally local transport for local people, so the target market indeed knows where those places are and will find it useful to know exactly where the bus terminates. See also stuff like Metrolink having a destination of "Piccadilly" rather than "Manchester Piccadilly", because the former is pretty implicit.

Although that could be misinterpreted as Piccadilly Gardens which is a large interchange for buses and trams, rather than Manchester Piccadilly Rail Station

 

[mangad]

Although that could be misinterpreted as Piccadilly Gardens which is a large interchange for buses and trams, rather than Manchester Piccadilly Rail Station

Metrolink are simply using the stop names. The tram stop at Piccadilly station is called Piccadilly. Manchester Piccadilly is the name only of the mainline station.

On the rare times that trams terminate at Piccadilly Gardens, they put that on the display. Any tram terminating at Piccadilly coming from the west will go through Piccadilly Gardens anyway so the scope for confusion is limited.

 

[WibbleWobble]

It is possible - and the driver doesn't change it. It all runs off ticketer which fires a message to the Aesys display when a certain point is passed. Only vehicles with Aesys destinations have this capability. These destinations also change automatically when the trip is set from the starting point on ticketer.

Mobitec destinations are changed manually as are the Hanover ones fitted to the coaches.

It is possible to set it up on Hanovers and have them updated by the Ticketer system. Go South Coast have started doing this on the m1, m2 and some Bluestar routes.

 

[Nammer]

I find some of the orange LED displays on First Solent vehicles seem faint, particularly during daylight. Also there are some with difficult to read destination fonts. Stagecoach vehicles in Portsmouth always seem much clearer.