Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by aformeruser, 2 Dec 2016.

  1. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    Given how many TOCs will need this derogation - Southern, Scotrail, Greater Anglia, Northern, Southeastern and Transport for Wales to name a few, the entire UK rail network will come to a halt in the new year unless a mass derogation is provided. I think one being granted is pretty much a certainty at this point or there'll be chaos.
     
  2. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Do Southern, Greater Anglia and Southeastern run pacers?
     
  3. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    No but from what I can gather they'll all be running non-PRM compliant stock at the turn of the new year (455s, 321s and 466s respectively) - I don't see why they wouldn't be, but I'm sure I keep hearing the 466s aren't being modified - no idea why, I could be wrong about that one.
     
  4. AMD

    AMD Member

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    We have gone off topic here.....
     
  5. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    If the first batch of 195s enter service in a weeks time as planned then its likely enough 195s will enter service over the next 6 months to run all or most of the planned services at the next timetable change. If the 769s are not ready by December the more obvious option for derogations would be 153s instead of pacers. Northern how have 20 which would mean they would be 12 coaches short which could be spread over a large number of routes.
     
  6. Energy

    Energy Member

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    Could Greater Anglia keep the 360s a bit longer? The new east midlands franchise uses them but they will only be used when Corby has been electrified. Going back onto topic they could be used on northern until the 769s arrive if there are any routes which have electrification or currently running diesel trains under wires, in this case the diesel trains can be used on routes which arent electrified or half electrified and the 360s taking over route they were on until the 769s return. But this would be complicated and being northern I wouldn't be suprised if they put 150s on the 769 routes temporarily.
     
  7. class387

    class387 Established Member

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    Are there any pictures of this?
     
  8. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    Remember though that 153s and 155s are not allowed through Wigan Wallgate. I once read that they would strike the platform edge.
     
  9. Chester1

    Chester1 Established Member

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    There would be plenty of options for shuffling units around. It doesn't need to be a direct swap. Northern won't have to start implement contingency measures for a while yet.
     
  10. Avid Fan

    Avid Fan New Member

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    Are the class 769's actually in service now, all seems to have gone very quiet?
     
  11. _toommm_

    _toommm_ Established Member

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    Not in service yet. TfW which I believe has run under it's own power a handful of times in the Depot, but to my knowledge, that's about it to be honest.
     
  12. 86247

    86247 Member

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    surely the 769 project is dead in the water far to many problems northern should just order more 195s or 331s
     
  13. Mogster

    Mogster Member

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    That would be the perfect solution...
     
  14. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    I'm pretty sure CAF would build a bi-mode if asked kindly enough.
     
  15. geoffk

    geoffk Member

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    More electrification would remove the need for 769s but that isn't a short-term option. Does Northern have dmu duties which are all, or nearly all, under the wires? I think the additional peak Leeds - Doncaster journeys are diesel as the unit also runs on the Harrogate line, any others?
     
  16. 86247

    86247 Member

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    do caf build bi-modes not too familiar with them northern should say stop to these 769s too much money ploughed in to them more 331s will be the perfect answer for northern routes
     
  17. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    That's as maybe, but presumably Northern have a contract for the supply of operational 769s. If they aren't delivered on time there will be penalties. Northern shouldn't be paying anything for trains they can't use, and should be able to claim for covering their absence.

    If they find the units don't perform to specification when available that's also an issue they need to resolve with Porterbrook. Of course we don't know what's really going on. All is still speculation. The lack of hard news is inevitably a concern and using tried units instead must be a prudent contingency measure.
     
  18. fgwrich

    fgwrich Established Member

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    Surely the biggest question for the 769 program will be... Will GW Ever see its share? Considering the GW ones are to be Tri-Mode, this will potentially add more complications to the program - and that's without the TOC specific interior with it's Air Cooling etc. At least the Northern issues could be solved with either more 195s, a Bi Mode or rolling Electrification & 339s from CAF. Could further electrification & infill electrification + further use of the 387s work for GW?
     
  19. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Given Northern's already high subsidy, I doubt that there would be any support for yet more capital expenditure, especially on new diesel trains that would need to be considered a 30+ year investment.
     
  20. Avid Fan

    Avid Fan New Member

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    I was going in Wikipedia which states they're in service from 2019.....
     
  21. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Northern have more than enough EMUs and more can be cascaded if needed.
    Any CAF bi-mode for the UK (I'm not sure they have anything suitable) would be 2-3 years away and need lengthy testing like the 195/331s.
    Stadler build decent bi-modes, as at Greater Anglia (about to enter service).
    I should think Northern will look there if they can afford any (which I doubt).
    Meanwhile, the DfT will be exceedingly angry if the 769s don't work, as I believe they are footing most of the bill for the initial development.
    The same people are working on hydrogen-powered options.
     
  22. Bovverboy

    Bovverboy Established Member

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    The Wigan North Western to Alderley Edge service, hourly for most of the day, 34m31ch in total, is under wires for all but the first 6m53ch. A slight complication is the fact that, at the moment, the service interworks with Wigan North Western to Stalybridge, but even that is itself under wires for approximately half its length.
     
  23. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Wikipedia is only as good as the information people like us have input. It can be wrong and can sometimes be very wrong. 769s may yet be in service in 2019 so it may not be wrong in this case.

    It's up to anyone registered on Wikipedia to add new information or correct errors. I've updated an entry elsewhere earlier today.
     
  24. AlexNL

    AlexNL Established Member

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    The HydroFLEX has moved under its own power at Rail Live, so there is a proven working concept now.
     
  25. Cardiff123

    Cardiff123 Member

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    Only a DfT with Chris Grayling at the helm would think that 769s and Hydro Flex 319s are viable options for the rail network.

    769s have moved under their own power on the GCR as well.........
     
  26. AndrewE

    AndrewE Established Member

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    Yeah, right!

    The 769s have moved quite a lot on the GCR, but I bet no-one is putting any money on them entering passenger service in 2019! The 2 units at Allerton haven't turned a wheel yet, so what chance of the fleet (?) entering service in the next 5 months?
     
  27. samuelmorris

    samuelmorris Established Member

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    They were viable options to begin with, and will continue to be if they are ever actually developed. There's no reason why this concept isn't workable.
     
  28. js1000

    js1000 Member

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    If we get to the end of the year and the 195s are well-received then there is every chance Northern and Eversholt will just order 8 195s units to make up for the 769 mess. To date passengers are happy (including myself and teething problems aside) and staff are enthused with the new units so every chance. Although I suspect the 195s will have to be bi-mode convertible in some way given the govt will probably ban diesel vehicles during the lifetime of the 195.
     
  29. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    Hopefully 769002 or 769008 will appear on the rhymney at the end if next month on driver training runs
     
  30. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    I reckon 002 will be seen on them first out of the two
     

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