That will be very welcome... as long as they work...
Short forming and ridiculous overcrowding on the Southport Line has been the norm since the 142s were withdrawn and replaced by nothing.
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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern
- Thread starter pemma
- Start date
That will be very welcome... as long as they work...
Short forming and ridiculous overcrowding on the Southport Line has been the norm since the 142s were withdrawn and replaced by nothing.
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R
RailUK Forums
Yep. You could see this situation coming from a mile off.
As a regular I have some sympathy with the Northern crews told to work these services daily. It can’t be pleasant starting your shift knowing your most likely going to be dealing with a hostile crowd situation.
If I'm reading the figures correctly, the 317s have 988 kW whilst the 319s and 321s have 1068 kW. I used to do 317/321 on the Cambridge cruisers and I can't say that the 321s had any noticable advantage over the 317s.
Regarding 319s, I've never really been a fan but I wouldn't accuse them of being slow. But then I grew up with the CIGs and VEPs so it's all relative. Climbing north out of Gatwick, I'm sure the 319s had to shut off for the 80 mph limit at Earlswood. They could do East Croydon to Gatwick non stop in 14 minutes which is no worse than a 377.
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South of the river, the 319s kept up with the Electrostars better because they were limited to (ISTR) 60% of their installed power on DC lines because of the inadequacies of a 3rd rail suppliy. The older DC motored stock, classes (319, 442, 455 and 456) weren't constrained and it was traffic/local linespeed limits that determined their speed.
I think the 317s are similar. Out of King's Cross they'd be screaming along at 80-85 mph by Alexandra Palace but the last 15 mph was a struggle. The adverse gradient didn't help.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The AC motors used on the Electrostars (and all other EMUs from the Networkers onwards) are able to sustain better acceleration at the top end of the speed range than the older DC motors. But in doing so they would use more power and therefore put more strain on the third rail power supply. So to avoid overload problems they were constrained to consume about the same power across the speed range as the older units did. This would naturally result in less acceleration because the newer units are also heavier.
JohnElliott
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I was on the railtour for the opening of City Thameslink (St Paul's Thameslink as it was then). Part of the programme was to try and hit 100mph in a couple of places (one on DC, one on AC). The DC attempt couldn't get past 99mph.
I have a feeling that on DC mode there is no field weakening on a 319, I might be wrong as obviously we don't drive them on DC mode up here (although the 769s will effectively be on DC mode under diesel power) but I do remember reading the FCC traction stuff and vaguely remember some kind of restriction on DC. Field weakening is just one stage on 319s and is pretty much undetectable even when you know when it happens and look out for it.
childwallblues
Established Member
Where at please?
paddyb6
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I'd assume Allerton but unsure
Allerton
Jamesrob637
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Are we on for the first 769 entering service next month or April?
BenW390Fan
Member
I can't see that happening
Bob Price
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Word is 008 will start testing etc in Wales wb 17 Feb. Seeing as they would be limited to one route, could they enter service first?
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
01/04/2020 would be apt.
AllanA1981
Member
Will probably start sometime between now and never knowing the promises we have had. Remember when the class 195's were ordered Northern said the couldn't be used for trains to Southport because of the platforms at New Lane station etc. We were told it's all good, from May 2018 Southport services will be run by class 170 turbo stars cascaded from Scotland.
Hmmm... that became a reality....
Hmmm... that became a reality....
jonesy3001
Established Member
769450 out on driver training today seen it go past Leyland cam on 5z40 and 5z41.
Greybeard33
Established Member
From RTT, these seem to be the first two of a planned series of ten ECS workings, all under wires:
5Z40 Springs Branch Stabling Sidings (dep 1249) to Blackpool North (BPN)
5Z41 BPN to St Helens Central (SNH)
5Z42 SNH to BPN
5Z43 BPN to BPN (reversing at Kirkham & Wesham [KKM])
5Z44 BPN to Wigan North Western (WGN)
5Z45 WGN to BPN
5Z46 BPN to BPN (reversing at KKM)
5Z47 BPN to Preston (PRE)
5Z48 PRE to BPN
5Z49 BPN to Springs Branch Stabling Sidings (arr 2237)
But it appears that 5Z41 was terminated at Springs Branch (running 7L) and the other eight workings were cancelled.
Should they have been running on diesel? or just checking that the electrics still work? Or even a bit of both for the drivers to get used to the change-overs?
Jozhua
Established Member
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I know people are worried about power, but this really isn't a problem.
Remember, due to capacity constraints on Manchester Castlefield and many other areas of the network, they'll probably never see more than 15-20mph anyway.
Remember, due to capacity constraints on Manchester Castlefield and many other areas of the network, they'll probably never see more than 15-20mph anyway.
I was on class 150s yesterday to and back from Southport... There are gradients at the outer ends of other routes they are needed for: I am looking forward to seeing how 769s perform (if they ever get into service.) Getting diesel haulage out of our city centres is the dominant requirement... I would have been happy with a compatible diesel loco in push-pull mode being coupled to a 319 away from the wires if it could have been made to work sooner.
Southport's quite a flat route but we still belted along at the country end.
Bertie the bus
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Driver instructor training has started. Photo of 769442 at Burscough Bridge on what I believe to be the first mainline outing of one of these on a non-electrified route - https://www.flickr.com/photos/britishrail1980sand1990s/49529872211/in/dateposted/
It's weird to see what clearly an electric train running with no third rail or OHLE (to the extent that if that image was posted 5 years ago everyone would have said it was a fake and praised the Photoshop skills of the person who created it).
Of course a very positive step and hopefully the start of as lot more such images (hopeful with passengers on board in the not too distant future).