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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

samuelmorris

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As stated elsewhere ....the Northern 150s with Airline seating are appallingly uncomfortable for a tall person. I attempted to sit in such a seat yesterday and was physically unable to fit myself in to the "space". The majority of seats are thus unusable for me ...and sadly the airline seating in a 323 is little better. You could scrap the lot of them tomorrow for my money if 319s are thereplacements.
Yeah I don't fit in those either, and at 5'11" I'm not that tall either...
 
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anamyd

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As stated elsewhere ....the Northern 150s with Airline seating are appallingly uncomfortable for a tall person. I attempted to sit in such a seat yesterday and was physically unable to fit myself in to the "space". The majority of seats are thus unusable for me ...and sadly the airline seating in a 323 is little better. You could scrap the lot of them tomorrow for my money if 319s are thereplacements.
for all this PRM-TSI RVAR DDA PSVAR etc stuff, isn't it rather ironic that there isn't a tall person discrimination act (6'3" here)...?
 

ed1971

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for all this PRM-TSI RVAR DDA PSVAR etc stuff, isn't it rather ironic that there isn't a tall person discrimination act (6'3" here)...?
Indeed! I am 6'1" and I find Class 153s and 155s the worst. There is no knee room and I have to leave them sticking out in the gangway.
 

anamyd

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Could the above in bold be translated please?

I believe it is a long standing forum policy not to use acronyms, abbreviations, or jargon without first saying what it means.
Apologies!
Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations
Disability Discrimination Act
Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (more for buses)
and the first one for the record is Persons with Reduced Mobility - Technical Specifications for Interoperability.

:)
 

driver_m

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They can and have been - I've travelled on one from Manchester to Wigan (a Blackpool train).
As for the broader point, they're so much nicer to travel on I'd rather see them kept to be honest; flaws not withstanding.

You can't use them on many other routes doubled up though. Certainly nothing out of Liverpool. The 319 for me is certainly better internally than a 150 because of all the bay seating. But a 323 is a much better train, though equally rubbish in wet weather/autumn. However the biggest winner would be to get hold of the spare 350s and 360s. That would be a genuine game changer..
 

Cardiff123

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So back on topic, have these trains actually turned a wheel in diesel mode on the National Rail mainline network yet? It's February at the end of next week.
 

PomWombat

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Indeed! I am 6'1" and I find Class 153s and 155s the worst. There is no knee room and I have to leave them sticking out in the gangway.
6'2" here and the same problem. 142, 144, 150, 153 and 156...

I have to use all-around seats, use 2 seats with legs spread wide, or sit mostly in the aisle.

I time my commute based on legroom. I'm not sure what I'd do in EMU land.
 

AM9

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6'2" here and the same problem. 142, 144, 150, 153 and 156...

I have to use all-around seats, use 2 seats with legs spread wide, or sit mostly in the aisle.

I time my commute based on legroom. I'm not sure what I'd do in EMU land.
6ft 2in passengers were (and still are) available for EMU travel on the MML and BML and managed for over 25 years! :)
 

Cardiff123

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So back on topic, have these trains actually turned a wheel in diesel mode on the National Rail mainline network yet? It's February at the end of next week.
As fascinating as discussing legroom for tall people is, it's obvious that this project has hit yet more delays. Mainline testing should surely be well underway by now?
Northern and TfW were due to take their first deliveries of 769s next month. Chances of that happening now seem pretty slim.
 

LOL The Irony

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As fascinating as discussing legroom for tall people is, it's obvious that this project has hit yet more delays. Mainline testing should surely be well underway by now?
Northern and TfW were due to take their first deliveries of 769s next month. Chances of that happening now seem pretty slim.
IIRC it was supposed to be December 2017. Then it was May 2018, then December 2018 and now March 2019 looks set to pass. And they were supposed to be quicker than new builds? In that time, CAF has built a factory in Wales and started turning out trains from CDK's sent from Spain.
 

Llama

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Mainline testing has yet to start, crew training hasn't even begun, indeed there hasn't been a training course put together/agreed yet. Hundreds of drivers from several traincrew depots will need training on the 769s, some of whom (a minority, mostly recently qualified) don't yet sign any electric traction so those drivers will need the six-day 319 course and then the conversion course to 769s. The chance of a May '19 introduction of 769s is wafer thin.
 

Cardiff123

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Mainline testing has yet to start, crew training hasn't even begun, indeed there hasn't been a training course put together/agreed yet. Hundreds of drivers from several traincrew depots will need training on the 769s, some of whom (a minority, mostly recently qualified) don't yet sign any electric traction so those drivers will need the six-day 319 course and then the conversion course to 769s. The chance of a May '19 introduction of 769s is wafer thin.
I assume your comments refer to Northern and not TfW (as TfW plan to confine their 769s to the Rhymney Valley line, so won't need to train 'hundreds of drivers from several traincrew depots').
 
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samuelmorris

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3 1/2 months have passed since video footage of them running tests at the GCR was posted - has there been any update on progress at all since then?
 

Bertie the bus

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Mainline testing has yet to start, crew training hasn't even begun, indeed there hasn't been a training course put together/agreed yet. Hundreds of drivers from several traincrew depots will need training on the 769s, some of whom (a minority, mostly recently qualified) don't yet sign any electric traction so those drivers will need the six-day 319 course and then the conversion course to 769s. The chance of a May '19 introduction of 769s is wafer thin.
ROG are doing the initial mainlne testing so there will be several weeks/months after it starts before you will even get hold of them. The way it's going there probably won't even be any accepted by May never mind enter traffic.
 

158820

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There has been no reported sightings of testing on the west coast main line. Rail Operations Group claimed they would be doing this from early November 2018.
 

palmersears

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769431 has hardly moved since its delivery to Allerton late last year. I've occasionally seen some orange jackets pointing at things, but nobody on it.

Which converted unit is next to be released? 456?
 

Killingworth

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That’s the obvious conclusion isn’t it :s

Plus reluctance of Northern to have yet more issues with crew training on new but old hybrids and who will do what, where, and for how much? Bigger priority must be to get truly brand new trains into service and that's going to be challenge enough.
 

sd0733

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319008.just passed through Nuneaton behind a 37 on a Wolverton to Brush Loughborough move, I believe this is a TfW unit. Presumably if another is going in something must be about ready to come out.
 

anthony263

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The 319/0 units are for tfw yes 319002 was taken last year to be converted so something has to be happening is 319008 is on the move
 

Cardiff123

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So the big Q is, why hasn't testing started on the WCML yet? Pathing issues to do with NR or problems with the 769s themselves?
 

Bertie the bus

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How can it be pathing issues? The 345s are tested on the WCML between Crewe and Rugby. The 195s and 331s are being tested on the WCML between Crewe and Carnforth. The Mk 5a's are being tested on the WCML between Carlisle and Bletchley. There are STP and VSTP paths on the WCML daily. Why would they still be on the GCR if it was pathing issues?
 

a_c_skinner

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It doesn't add up. From every point of view it seems business as usual. Orders keep trickling in, poeple speculate about new uses, new classes are put forward for similar conversions, stock keeps moving, except of course for the ones that seem already finished of course.
 

big all

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it could be anything really and not be a problem at all
as an example the engine and radiator are fully matched
but in the actual location fitted the airflow is reduced so requires say a radiator adaption and maybe a couple off baffles to redirect the airflow
a simple problem that once the answer is found the problem has been solved
this is not the case but just an example to demonstrate a possible reason
its just a crude example but these things happen all the time
 
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