Portugal: Revival of high speed Porto-Lisbon line as part of €10∙5bn investment programme

[JKF]

As part of the post-Covid stimulus plan, Portugal is planning to invest heavily in the rail network, which has been chronically underfunded for decades (while multiple motorways have been springing up all over the country, none of which seems heavily used). It’s a mix of high speed upgrades (which were planned before the 2008 crash but abandoned under an austerity government) , capacity enhancements, electrification and reopening. Quite ambitious, and will have some EU money behind it.

Porto – Lisboa high speed link revived under €10∙5bn rail spending programme

PORTUGAL: The government has confirmed its intention to press ahead with rail investment totalling more than €10bn as part of a wider national stimulus programme. The highlight of the package is the revival of a proposal for a high speed rail link between Lisboa and Porto, which was the subject ...

www.railwaygazette.com

Porto-Lisbon in 1hr15 is one if the goals.

The current Portuguese government seems quite pro-rail and has appointed leadership who actually have a strong rail background. Currently they are making some very economical short-medium term fixes to a network that was almost at the point of collapse, including reviving old stock (some locos have been in storage for over a decade), and buying a load of intercity coaches from Spain at scrap value. They’ve reopened the rail workshops at Guifoes to undertake this refurbishment ‘in house’. For traction enthusiasts one of the benefits of this policy has been the reintroduction of regular timetabled loco hauled services on the scenic Douro line, using the CP1400 class, which is based on the UK class 20 (the first 10 were actually built in Vulcan Foundry, though none of that batch are in the passenger pool at the moment, I’m hoping 1408 makes it north at some point ).

 

[37201xoIM]

Yes indeed - see also this very helpful thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...will-be-refurbished-back-to-operation.191916/

 

[LucyP]

It won't happen, because they cannot do it and stay with the EU budget rules. That is why Portugal is in such a mess, because the EU insisted that they reduce the budget deficit. And now that the UK has left, there is less of a budget for handouts. The state railway operator has estimated that 60% of the network infrastructure is in bad or mediocre condition.

The network carried 145 million passengers last year, compared to nearly 2 billion for the UK!

They have 137 mph pendolino son the line that was only refurbished 3 years ago and the journey is 3 hours. There are 5 services a day! There are more services between Leeds and London in 3 hours!

 

[Jamesrob637]

It won't happen, because they cannot do it and stay with the EU budget rules. That is why Portugal is in such a mess, because the EU insisted that they reduce the budget deficit. And now that the UK has left, there is less of a budget for handouts. The state railway operator has estimated that 60% of the network infrastructure is in bad or mediocre condition.

The network carried 145 million passengers last year, compared to nearly 2 billion for the UK!

They have 137 mph pendolino son the line that was only refurbished 3 years ago and the journey is 3 hours. There are 5 services a day! There are more services between Leeds and London in 3 hours!

Or Manchester to London within 2 hours under normal circumstances!

 

[BahrainLad]

In the case of the Algarve the main issue for Intercity rail is that the A2 motorway is excellent and has a very low utilisation so driving up to Lisbon is approximately the same length of time as taking the train. For example driving from Lisbon airport to the Paderne 'portagem' (toll plaza) which is effectively the entrance to the Algarve in motoring terms is 237km and almost entirely motorway. And once you get off the brief stretch outside the airport and onto the VdG bridge there will be no traffic, at any time of day. So at a speed of 160km/h you could do the journey in around 1h40m. By comparison the fastest Alfa Pendular takes 2h31 to get from Oriente to Tunes, pretty much the equivalent trip. The only way to improve on this would be to rebuild the southern section of the line to a completely new alignment.

 

[ashkeba]

So at a speed of 160km/h you could do the journey in around 1h40m.

The motorway speed limit is 120kph.

Plus the usual cautionts about comparing calculated car journey times with train timetables.

There is good reason for high speed rail but it can be messed up, of course.

 

[BahrainLad]

The motorway speed limit is 120kph.

Plus the usual cautionts about comparing calculated car journey times with train timetables.

There is good reason for high speed rail but it can be messed up, of course.

Believe me, I am a strong supporter of high speed rail and rail in general. But on this route, and bearing in mind that most people drive on the motorway at at least 140km/h, the car is quicker for an end-to-end journey time. Having said that, tolls and fuel are not cheap in Portugal, and the train can be very competitively priced, even for the Alfa and even in First Class.

 

[158722]

Believe me, I am a strong supporter of high speed rail and rail in general. But on this route, and bearing in mind that most people drive on the motorway at at least 140km/h, the car is quicker for an end-to-end journey time. Having said that, tolls and fuel are not cheap in Portugal, and the train can be very competitively priced, even for the Alfa and even in First Class.

Lisboa-Porto is cheaper for two people on the train than it is the car - based on just the return trip costs - with three people when car depreciation/maintanance costs are added in. Prior to Covid, passenger numbers were increasing year on year, reversing a downward trend that we had for manys years. Now the problem is capacity - more trains needed, more services needed and more capacity on the mainlines, especially Lisboa-Porto. Same discussion as in the UK regarding HS2 - is it for extra speed or extra capacity? Do you upgrade the existing line, involving years of delays and issues for regular users like me or do you go for a separate new line? Personally, given the state of the world & country just now, I'd go for a capacity enhancement of the existing line - more 3 or 4 track sections, more loops, some new sections or bypasses at a couple of critical locations, plus more new stock - principally suburban, Regionals and Alfa-type high speed units.

 

[frodshamfella]

I travel to Tavira often, the Algarve line uses very old diesel stock. There has been signage regarding electrification for some time now, but I haven't seen any progress.