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Possible 313 fire at Shoreham - 25/01

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swt class 450

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Good to hear. I like seeing this unit. It didn't look to be too major so it was probably fairly easy to get it fixed.
 
Fincra5

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Oddly old BigBlue had new motors fitted in one the DMS' only recently. I drove it the day after it came back out... Seemed to shoot off the mark! But the fire isn't my driving! Haha.
 
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Bishopstone

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Both Lewes-Brighton shuttle diagrams - booked for 313 - are cancelled this morning, due to lack of serviceable units.

Reduces the service between these towns by a third, and at London Road by 50%
 
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pompeyfan

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Bishopstone said:
Both Lewes-Brighton shuttle diagrams - booked for 313 - are cancelled this morning, due to lack of serviceable units.

Reduces the service between these towns by a third, and at London Road by 50%
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The 0857 Portsmouth - Littlehampton which is a sold 313 diagram was a 377 this morning.
 
sarahj

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If the talk in the messroom is true. 201 will not be coming back into service. As someone has wrote:

Then one dark day it all went wrong,
Big Blue, she caught on fire.
The fitters looked, and drank more tea
And said 'she must retire'.

The world was stunned, all else forgotten,
Tears? Yes, more than a few!
But no-one who saw her will ever forget
The legend that was Big Blue!
 
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aleggatta

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I would be very surprised if it didn't come back, maybe give it some time, but considering 313026 up on GN is now supposedly out of use due to needing a major exam, although it may be some time, I think we will see 201 again. whether that be with parts robbed from 026 who knows, but there is still a considerable amount of time left for the franchise and its unlikely that they will be replaced in the first couple of months of the new franchise. Does anyone know what actually failed on 201?
 
prod_pep

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aleggatta said:
I would be very surprised if it didn't come back, maybe give it some time, but considering 313026 up on GN is now supposedly out of use due to needing a major exam, although it may be some time, I think we will see 201 again. whether that be with parts robbed from 026 who knows, but there is still a considerable amount of time left for the franchise and its unlikely that they will be replaced in the first couple of months of the new franchise. Does anyone know what actually failed on 201?
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I do agree. Over the years, I've seen a number of Merseyrail 507/8 units with fire damage that caused visible scorching along the bodyside. In the last couple of months both 507020 and 508108 have had electrical fires, the latter currently outside Birkenhead North Depot with scorch marks on the bodyside. These types of fires have always been fixed before and 313201's damage was reported as minor, so I'm hopeful it will make a return in the next few weeks. (Liverpool Echo article on 507020's fire - it was actually rather dramatic - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ing-video-shows-explosion-merseyrail-15346715.)

Were 313201 withdrawn, I can't see them sourcing a replacement unit in the form of a withdrawn GN 313 as has been suggested; parts for sure but not a working set. Would love to be proved wrong but with all the work needed to bring one up to the spec of the SN fleet, not least removing the pantograph, re-wiring and shoegear alterations before any PRM-TSI work, would they bother?

As for 313026, slightly off-topic for this thread, but wasn't 313047 previously withdrawn and quickly re-instated last year? 026's future may depend on how close the 717s are to entering full service.
 
Kite159

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Although for a short term basis an GN 313 would be suitable, as a train is better than no train, even if the interior is different. Probably some diagram magic to keep the GN 313 on Hove/Lewes shuttles.
 
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aleggatta

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forgetting about cosmetics, the only real issues with bringing a GN 313 straight down is the speed restriction in DC (easily removed), the lack of a DC bus line(resolved by not letting either end gap when berthed) and traction supply sockets for getting the units out of the shed. I don't know if the GN 313's have the DC traction/shore changeover switch on the PTS but if it is there, at the very least they could do exam work and drag the unit out with another when it came to leaving the shed at lovers.
 
sarahj

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On 201, the fire/smoke was internal. I've seen the pics, not great. (not able to share)
 
sarahj

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robert7111a said:
As before @sarahj, not a problem - fully understand

I can only speculate then that the internal damage is too much work and that unit will be formally withdrawn from service.

Are you at liberty to say if unit is still in the shed or not?
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I'm not sure where it is TBH. I'm mainly on Lewes's today and then later a west worthing, so don't go past Lovers to see whats there unless it gets dumped in montpellier sidings. Most of the info I get comes from the Big Blue facebook group. (not open to non southern/gtr crew and if we don't know you)
 
Mikey C

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Metal_gee_man said:
SE need them to allow services to run as 8 or 12 carriage services, it seems as if most of the 377s are running Canterbury West/Ashford Int to Victoria diagrams, and many of the 375s have been displaced out to make regular 8 carriage services from Ramsgate to Charing Cross via Canterbury West or Via Dover Priory, as well as the Ramsgate/Dover Priory to Victoria services! That in addition the Medway Valley line now uses 375s rather than networkers so all in all it wasn't about new services but improving seats per train
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Also to displace the 465/9s from the longer services and return them to the inner London/Gillingham routes for a desperately needed capacity boost to those services
 
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RichardKing

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sarahj said:
On 201, the fire/smoke was internal. I've seen the pics, not great. (not able to share)
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If it's as bad as 377 442, I can't see it returning. There isn't the flexibility with the 313s to take a coach out, sadly.
If this is the case, another 313 will have to be sourced from GN until at least the end of the franchise, as they can't keep taking 377s from peak-time diagrams. Either that or they try and get a 377/5 back from SE?
 
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GN 313s are going to be salvaged for spares then scrapped. As said best thing to do would be to source a 377 to cover the diagram. I am sure they can juggle the stock workings to make one available. The 455s are used less intensively these days so perhaps they could swap a 377 working in the metro area for a 455 and use the 377 for the 313 diagram. GTR have enough stock I am sure to balance it out even if its in the May timetable change officially.
 
Kite159

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RichardKing said:
If it's as bad as 377 442, I can't see it returning. There isn't the flexibility with the 313s to take a coach out, sadly.
If this is the case, another 313 will have to be sourced from GN until at least the end of the franchise, as they can't keep taking 377s from peak-time diagrams. Either that or they try and get a 377/5 back from SE?
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Or even that random 377/1 from SE?
 
tsr

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OxtedSignaller said:
GN 313s are going to be salvaged for spares then scrapped. As said best thing to do would be to source a 377 to cover the diagram. I am sure they can juggle the stock workings to make one available. The 455s are used less intensively these days so perhaps they could swap a 377 working in the metro area for a 455 and use the 377 for the 313 diagram. GTR have enough stock I am sure to balance it out even if its in the May timetable change officially.
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The 455s usually run as 8 coach formations, so it’s not usually as simple as just borrowing one. There’s actually quite a shortage at times at the moment, too - they’re falling apart just as much as some of the 313s, if not perhaps more so!

It might perhaps be possible to retain the 387 from GN which is currently covering for GatEx overhauls, as many drivers (and all other onboard crew) who sign 377s also sign 387s.

Alternatively, now could be a good time to reduce the rather greedy use of 8/377 formations on the Milton Keynes services during off-peak hours, which is total overkill except in the most extreme circumstances.
 
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physics34

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tsr said:
The 455s usually run as 8 coach formations, so it’s not usually as simple as just borrowing one. There’s actually quite a shortage at times at the moment, too - they’re falling apart just as much as some of the 313s, if not perhaps more so!

It might perhaps be possible to retain the 387 from GN which is currently covering for GatEx overhauls, as many drivers (and all other onboard crew) who sign 377s also sign 387s.

Alternatively, now could be a good time to reduce the rather greedy use of 8/377 formations on the Milton Keynes services during off-peak hours, which is total overkill except in the most extreme circumstances.
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the problem is they stay together on those MK diagrams all day......with nowhere to split or attach enroute. (well east croydon they could but that wouldnt be viable i guess). Think there are two sets of two though that (are used on shepherds bush shuttles) go back to the depot in mid morning....

....also you have those off peak London Bridge to Epsom 10 cars which are big overkill off peak.
 
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physics34 said:
the problem is they stay together on those MK diagrams all day......with nowhere to split or attach enroute. (well east croydon they could but that wouldnt be viable i guess). Think there are two sets of two though that (are used on shepherds bush shuttles) go back to the depot in mid morning....

....also you have those off peak London Bridge to Epsom 10 cars which are big overkill off peak.
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The reason you have long trains running around off peak is because there's nowhere to put the surplus coaches, no drivers to take them there, and to prevent using up time at stations such as London Bridge and Victoria splitting and attaching them.
I'm not sure you could attach and split at East Croydon, as I don't believe there's any permissive working there, and there platform staff aren't trained to do it.
 
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