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Possible alternative to Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway ?

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Halish Railway

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Let's do what the Midland Railway never did and extend the Guisely to Yeadon railway all the way to Horsforth, but via Leeds Bradford Airport.

On a more serious note, Guiseley can be an origin for a Bus connection, although given the traffic in Guiseley it'd probably be quicker to just run a Bus from Apperley Bridge.
 
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Bigman

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Better still, bore a big tunnel from Stourton under Leeds City Station to open up into a new subterranean interchange station. Extend the tunnel NW to come out East of Otley, with a station under the airport en-route. The line can then pass Harrogate and Ripon with parkway stations to serve both towns them, and then join the ECML just South of Northallerton. Bingo.. fast link to the airport and the HS2 link from Leeds to the ECML sorted at the same time. You also run a line out from Leeds heading West and under Bradford to ultimately become the NPR route across to Manchester. 3 birds with one stone.
 

4-SUB 4732

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When HS2 and NPR come along, local flights will be needed even less. Local airports can be closed, with a limited number staying open for, mainly, international flights. No need for Liverpool and Leeds Bradford when NPR is built, just give Manchester and Newcastle better airports (upgraded a bit) with good rail connections and you’ve got a (probably) cheaper and more carbon efficient system.

We could make airports really worth it if there are less ones that are busier, with good rail connections.

Totally agree if I’m honest. I’d even go so far as to say we need the national strategy on airports.

In Scotland that is Aberdeen and Glasgow (linking to all the islands etc), in Wales it is Cardiff (and then only, one suspects, Valley).

Northern England is Manchester and Newcastle.

The south I would say we should actually aim to close Gatwick eventually, mostly because it is too much of a drain on the Southern electric rail system. I’d go for Plymouth (!), Southampton, Heathrow, City and Cambridge.

And then, based on the location of Nottingham, Sheffield etc I’d actually go with East Midlands over Birmingham, as Birmingham will be so accessible by Manchester and Heathrow.

But yes, in reference to the original point, Leeds Bradford and Doncaster Sheffield are dead.
 

HST43257

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Totally agree if I’m honest. I’d even go so far as to say we need the national strategy on airports.

In Scotland that is Aberdeen and Glasgow (linking to all the islands etc), in Wales it is Cardiff (and then only, one suspects, Valley).

Northern England is Manchester and Newcastle.

The south I would say we should actually aim to close Gatwick eventually, mostly because it is too much of a drain on the Southern electric rail system. I’d go for Plymouth (!), Southampton, Heathrow, City and Cambridge.

And then, based on the location of Nottingham, Sheffield etc I’d actually go with East Midlands over Birmingham, as Birmingham will be so accessible by Manchester and Heathrow.

But yes, in reference to the original point, Leeds Bradford and Doncaster Sheffield are dead.
I’d suggest Birmingham over East Mids because of the wider high speed rail links in the future. Whilst flights shouldn’t be encouraged, they should still be more accessible. Alternatively, you could close both! Heathrow is 1 change from high speed rail connected cities. Manchester Airport has a direct service from Birmingham and a single change from the East Mids.

Given the presence of HS2 and NPR, one could go so far as to propose just these 8 staying open:
Exeter
Heathrow
Stansted
Cardiff
Manchester
Newcastle
Edinburgh or Glasgow
Inverness or Aberdeen
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Totally agree if I’m honest. I’d even go so far as to say we need the national strategy on airports.

In Scotland that is Aberdeen and Glasgow (linking to all the islands etc), in Wales it is Cardiff (and then only, one suspects, Valley).

Northern England is Manchester and Newcastle.

The south I would say we should actually aim to close Gatwick eventually, mostly because it is too much of a drain on the Southern electric rail system. I’d go for Plymouth (!), Southampton, Heathrow, City and Cambridge.

And then, based on the location of Nottingham, Sheffield etc I’d actually go with East Midlands over Birmingham, as Birmingham will be so accessible by Manchester and Heathrow.

But yes, in reference to the original point, Leeds Bradford and Doncaster Sheffield are dead.

Is Doncaster Sheffield the "Stars in their Eyes" airport at Finningley where it has also been known as Robin Hood?
 

JRT

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Let's do what the Midland Railway never did and extend the Guisely to Yeadon railway all the way to Horsforth, but via Leeds Bradford Airport.

On a more serious note, Guiseley can be an origin for a Bus connection, although given the traffic in Guiseley it'd probably be quicker to just run a Bus from Apperl

Let's do what the Midland Railway never did and extend the Guisely to Yeadon railway all the way to Horsforth, but via Leeds Bradford Airport.

On a more serious note, Guiseley can be an origin for a Bus connection, although given the traffic in Guiseley it'd probably be quicker to just run a Bus from Apperley Bridge.
A few years ago, when the local Guiseley minibus network was in the planning stage, there was a Guiseley to Airport link listed that never appeared.

A Guiseley to Airport link is provided by the A3.
Apperley Bridge station is now served by the A2, direct to/from Airport.

I haven't looked at times for these (currently hourly train service btw).
 

30907

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A few years ago, when the local Guiseley minibus network was in the planning stage, there was a Guiseley to Airport link listed that never appeared.

A Guiseley to Airport link is provided by the A3.
Apperley Bridge station is now served by the A2, direct to/from Airport.

I haven't looked at times for these (currently hourly train service btw).
Both hourly AFAIK, giving a half hourly combined service from Bradford.
 

Halifaxlad

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Perfect place for a railway station then!I

I would have said it was ideal anyway, this new development just means that a few houses are much closer than all the rest, which ain't that far.

Screenshot_20210202_122036.jpg

It's just a shame that this also includes the 2 acre brown field site adjacent to the main road. I think 1 acre should be sufficient for a multistory car park.
 

YorksLad12

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It wouldn't be built on the bridge & embankment, but a bit further north - which puts it as close to Horsforth as LBAP/Cookridge/North Horsforth will be. If we were interventionists you could build Woodside and the proposed station then close Horsforth, with a footpath to connect the closed station to the new one further north.
 

Halifaxlad

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It wouldn't be built on the bridge & embankment

That's where it was suggested in WYCAs 'New Stations Study' dated October 2014. I am aware that they have been previous proposals stretching back around 30 years.

Screenshot_20210202_184039.jpg

This is also what it says for both Horsforth Woodside and LBA Parkway/Cookridge...

Screenshot_20210202_184744.jpg

If Horsforth Woodside was built I would build it next to the road I certainly wouldn't close Horsforth. If it wasn't for the road I would rather see a new station constructed between Hawksworth & West Park.

Screenshot_20210202_184226.jpg
 

YorksLad12

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Dear Lord. Cookridge "scored poorly", but is effectively what they're going with. To paraphrase Mrs Merton, I wonder what attracted WYCA to the £46m of funding?

Re the map though: your yellow line for the station location does cross the Ring Road, the New Stations Study has it on the northern side.
 

nr758123

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Dear Lord. Cookridge "scored poorly", but is effectively what they're going with. To paraphrase Mrs Merton, I wonder what attracted WYCA to the £46m of funding?
It scored poorly, but not as poorly as White Rose Centre. I'm sure there must be reasons why a couple of suggested station locations which ranked at 40th or lower out of 60-odd are being progressed, whilst other locations which scored highly aren't being considered further.
 

Halifaxlad

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Thinking about possible new stations reminded me, of this site not far from the junction with Kirkstall Road adjacent to the Harrogate Line that would make a good site for a Park & Ride, although Im also of the opinion that it may be better located further away from the city centre.

Leeds Burley.png

If a station was also built adjacent to it, it would be similar to Garforth & East Garforth unless Burley Park was combined with Headingley into a single station adjacent to the Stadium, which is an idea that isn't mine but has previously been referred to elsewhere on this forum before by others.
 
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JRT

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Both hourly AFAIK, giving a half hourly combined service from Bradford.
I was thinking about a train–bus journey
Timings are
15 minutes approximately each leg

* Bradford Forster Square or Leeds – Apperley Bridge
* Apperley Bridge – Airport

* Bradford Forster Square or Leeds – Guiseley
* Guiseley – Airport

so 30 minutes actual travel time plus connection time.
 
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bluenoxid

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Thinking about possible new stations reminded me, of this site not far from the junction with Kirkstall Road adjacent to the Harrogate Line that would make a good site for a Park & Ride, although Im also of the opinion that it may be better located further away from the city centre.

View attachment 89865

If a station was also built adjacent to it, it would be similar to Garforth & East Garforth unless Burley Park was combined with Headingley into a single station adjacent to the Stadium, which is an idea that isn't mine but has previously been referred to elsewhere on this forum before by others.
It would not be a great site for a park and ride. Traffic reaching it would have passed through sustained single lane sections in the suburbs of Leeds on the A65 or A660.

In addition, there is pretty decent bus priority from here to the city centre, which would be just as effective as a new railway station
 
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YorksLad12

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If a station was also built adjacent to it, it would be similar to Garforth & East Garforth unless Burley Park was combined with Headingley into a single station adjacent to the Stadium, which is an idea that isn't mine but has previously been referred to elsewhere on this forum before by others.

It would not be a great site for a park and ride. Traffic reaching it would have passed through sustained single lane sections in the suburbs of Leeds on the A65 or A660.

In addition, there is pretty decent bus priority from here to the city centre, which would be just as effective as a new railway station

As well as Burley Park just to the north there's the impressive viaduct just to the south. As the LBAP mentions (and I hate to be fair to them here) there's a lack of sensible spaces north of Leeds for P&R, especially for transfer to rail, which is why Cookridge has drifted back up the list. The proposed Supertram terminus at Stourton will become one when they get around to it; Bodington should have been as well but there's no sign of that.
 

willgreen

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Thinking about possible new stations reminded me, of this site not far from the junction with Kirkstall Road adjacent to the Harrogate Line that would make a good site for a Park & Ride, although Im also of the opinion that it may be better located further away from the city centre.

View attachment 89865

If a station was also built adjacent to it, it would be similar to Garforth & East Garforth unless Burley Park was combined with Headingley into a single station adjacent to the Stadium, which is an idea that isn't mine but has previously been referred to elsewhere on this forum before by others.
This is even closer to Burley Park than Burley Park is to Headingley - there's definitely better possible locations than this, at least with the current lack of resources.
 

billio

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Dear Lord. Cookridge "scored poorly", but is effectively what they're going with. To paraphrase Mrs Merton, I wonder what attracted WYCA to the £46m of funding?

Re the map though: your yellow line for the station location does cross the Ring Road, the New Stations Study has it on the northern side.
The railway bridge is a constraint that prevents the ring road being a dual carriageway at that point. Land has been reserved either side of the bridge to build a dual carriageway so I suppose the road planners would welcome a rebuild of the bridge or an additional bridge to accommodate a dual carriageway. The station could be included in the rebuild.
Achieving this would be something of a pain to Harrogate line commuters !
 

bluenoxid

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As well as Burley Park just to the north there's the impressive viaduct just to the south. As the LBAP mentions (and I hate to be fair to them here) there's a lack of sensible spaces north of Leeds for P&R, especially for transfer to rail, which is why Cookridge has drifted back up the list. The proposed Supertram terminus at Stourton will become one when they get around to it; Bodington should have been as well but there's no sign of that.
Construction at Stourton is well underway and I expect it to open this year. Bodington is not progressing but a site opposite the Grammar School at Leeds on the A61 is under serious consideration.
 

YorksLad12

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Construction at Stourton is well underway and I expect it to open this year. Bodington is not progressing but a site opposite the Grammar School at Leeds on the A61 is under serious consideration.

Thanks - I'm out of the loop now. Last I heard there were local objections at Stourton but it's a sensible place for a P&R, Leeds/WYCA already owned the land because of Supertram I think.
 

Halifaxlad

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It would not be a great site for a park and ride. Traffic reaching it would have passed through sustained single lane sections in the suburbs of Leeds on the A65 or A660.

In addition, there is pretty decent bus priority from here to the city centre, which would be just as effective as a new railway station

I take you're point, but I suspect those expected to use this proposed airport car park station will be those already travelling down it.

To me its more sensible to keep traffic flows on the A658 and A660 separated!
Since this parkway is meant to be for Leeds not Bradford, to head towards the airport via a very sharp junction for those coming down the A660, to then travel a further 3km to the airport on the main road towards Bradford from Harrogate, just doesn't make much sense!
 

Grumpy

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It scored poorly, but not as poorly as White Rose Centre. I'm sure there must be reasons why a couple of suggested station locations which ranked at 40th or lower out of 60-odd are being progressed, whilst other locations which scored highly aren't being considered further.
The forecasting method used in the New Stations study basically predicted demand based on the number of houses within the immediate vicinity of the proposed station sites. The more households the more the forecast usage. What wasn't reflected was the attraction of a station as a destination. So the likes of White Rose, with a shopping centre and large office park scored badly compared to a site with nearby houses. If they had reviewed all the existing stations using the model then Leeds City station would not have scored well due to the lack of nearby housing
 

bluenoxid

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I take you're point, but I suspect those expected to use this proposed airport car park station will be those already travelling down it.

To me its more sensible to keep traffic flows on the A658 and A660 separated!
Since this parkway is meant to be for Leeds not Bradford, to head towards the airport via a very sharp junction for those coming down the A660, to then travel a further 3km to the airport on the main road towards Bradford from Harrogate, just doesn't make much sense!

Dyneley Arms (the junction where the A658 and A660 meet north of Leeds Bradford Airport for readers who don’t recognise the location) is not brilliant for that manoeuvre. It is receiving an upgrade, which is expected to include a right turn lane for those travelling from Otley towards Leeds-Bradford.

What will be interesting is the road upgrades delivered on Scotland Lane, which is not the best road in existence.

It will also be interesting to see the abstraction from Apperley Bridge and users of the A65, who would be making the choice to leave the corridor at the same roundabout.
 

AndrewE

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Nobody seems to have said it yet so I will: the best alternative would be no airport there at all.
(I hope) air travel is past its peak now, and when I (and my parents) used it, it was frequently closed by weather, so we got taken elsewhwere, then we were put on a bus back to it to reclaim our baggage, then had to get home again from somewhere we didn't want to be!
It is in the wrong place, too small to be viable given the bigger airports not far away and is just an ego-trip for the councils in the area.
A
 

Grumpy

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Nobody seems to have said it yet so I will: the best alternative would be no airport there at all.
(I hope) air travel is past its peak now, and when I (and my parents) used it, it was frequently closed by weather, so we got taken elsewhwere, then we were put on a bus back to it to reclaim our baggage, then had to get home again from somewhere we didn't want to be!
It is in the wrong place, too small to be viable given the bigger airports not far away and is just an ego-trip for the councils in the area.
A
Nonsense. It's not just an ego trip for the councils, it's an asset to the people of Yorkshire, providing a gateway to Europe and beyond without the worrying trek over the Pennines to Manchester or beyond. Increased passenger use in recent years has led to the demand for a bigger terminal, not Council egos.
 

AndrewE

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Nonsense. It's not just an ego trip for the councils, it's an asset to the people of Yorkshire, providing a gateway to Europe and beyond without the worrying trek over the Pennines to Manchester or beyond. Increased passenger use in recent years has led to the demand for a bigger terminal, not Council egos.
Funny, that. Other people disagree:
and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-55979376 says
Plans to expand Leeds Bradford Airport must be halted "for the good of generations", a group of MPs, councillors and scientists has urged.
Plans to demolish the terminal and build a new one costing up to £150m have been recommended for approval.
An open letter signed by 114 people says plans to increase the airport's size and passenger numbers is "fundamentally wrong".
 
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