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Possible alternative to Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway ?

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billio

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Nonsense. It's not just an ego trip for the councils, it's an asset to the people of Yorkshire, providing a gateway to Europe and beyond without the worrying trek over the Pennines to Manchester or beyond. Increased passenger use in recent years has led to the demand for a bigger terminal, not Council egos.
This is an off-topic rant but it illustrates the ridiculous nature of trying to bring Leeds Bradford airport into any public transport network.

The best location fo a 'Yorkshire' airport would have been Church Fenton where a station could use existing train services to Hull, Doncaster, Peterborough, London, Leeds, Sheffield, Derby, Birmingham, Bristol, the South West, Oxford, Reading, Bournemouth, Manchester city and airport, Liverpool, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, York, Scarborough, Middlesborough, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness. Plus either direct or with a simple connection to nearly all local services within Yorkshire or even the north of England. Then in future add in the eastern arm of HS2 and HS3 to provide the 'Schiphol' of the UK's airports.

And a few miles of link road connects into the A1M and M1, themselves connecting into the M62.

This sort of blunder is why we need a sensible national transport policy.
 
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HST43257

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This is an off-topic rant but it illustrates the ridiculous nature of trying to bring Leeds Bradford airport into any public transport network.

The best location fo a 'Yorkshire' airport would have been Church Fenton where a station could use existing train services to Hull, Doncaster, Peterborough, London, Leeds, Sheffield, Derby, Birmingham, Bristol, the South West, Oxford, Reading, Bournemouth, Manchester city and airport, Liverpool, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, York, Scarborough, Middlesborough, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness. Plus either direct or with a simple connection to nearly all local services within Yorkshire or even the north of England. Then in future add in the eastern arm of HS2 and HS3 to provide the 'Schiphol' of the UK's airports.

And a few miles of link road connects into the A1M and M1, themselves connecting into the M62.

This sort of blunder is why we need a sensible national transport policy.
With HS2 and HS3, I would think that a limited number of airports will actually be needed, given the (hopefully) limited domestic travel taking place. No need for Schiphol. A couple of London airports, 2 in Wales and the south west, 1 in the Midlands, 1 at Manchester and 2 in Scotland. If you must have a Yorkshire Airport, either do East Leeds (Church Fenton) as you suggest or enhance links to Robin Hood near Donny.
 

Bigman

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They could always build a station at Donny Airport (which would also serve Finningley village), make the Doncaster-Lincoln a half-hourly service, with 1 extended to Leeds to be operated by a 769 (or some newer bi-mode). Bingo, a rail connection from Leeds to a Yorkshire Airport with a lot less cost. (Only joking of course).
 

bluenoxid

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Problem with these ideas about closing Leeds Bradford Airport is that Leeds-Bradford has very little domestic that doesn’t cross water. The BA London route disappeared before the pandemic.

The only route I can see going is Southampton.

Leeds-Bradford is a short haul hub connecting Yorkshire to Europe and it was filling planes pre pandemic.
 

billio

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With HS2 and HS3, I would think that a limited number of airports will actually be needed, given the (hopefully) limited domestic travel taking place. No need for Schiphol. A couple of London airports, 2 in Wales and the south west, 1 in the Midlands, 1 at Manchester and 2 in Scotland. If you must have a Yorkshire Airport, either do East Leeds (Church Fenton) as you suggest or enhance links to Robin Hood near Donny.
I was comparing Church Fenton with Schiphol on the basis of Schiphol's station and the connection to railway services across the Netherlands rather than the range of flight destinations, though if there was such a well connected airport, the flights will probably come. However, I can't see this happening as the question of what happens to Leeds Bradford depends on a few councillors in Leeds not some thought out national strategy.
 

HST43257

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Problem with these ideas about closing Leeds Bradford Airport is that Leeds-Bradford has very little domestic that doesn’t cross water. The BA London route disappeared before the pandemic.
But other airports will have less domestic flights, creating space for all at Leeds Bradford, Liverpool, Doncaster Sheffield and Tees Valley to be from Manchester and Newcastle instead.
 

YorksLad12

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They could always build a station at Donny Airport (which would also serve Finningley village), make the Doncaster-Lincoln a half-hourly service, with 1 extended to Leeds to be operated by a 769 (or some newer bi-mode). Bingo, a rail connection from Leeds to a Yorkshire Airport with a lot less cost. (Only joking of course).
Former Finningley Station is right at the end of the runway, which is why the proposal is for a spur off the ECML to serve the airport buildings. But yes, the track literally runs past the airport in a way it doesn't almost anywhere else.

I was comparing Church Fenton with Schiphol on the basis of Schiphol's station and the connection to railway services across the Netherlands rather than the range of flight destinations, though if there was such a well connected airport, the flights will probably come. However, I can't see this happening as the question of what happens to Leeds Bradford depends on a few councillors in Leeds not some thought out national strategy.
We could always rebuild the grass runway at Sherburn in Elmet, make a twin-site airport for international and domestic flights o_O
 

quantinghome

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...without the worrying trek over the Pennines to Manchester or beyond...

Worrying trek:
- Climbing the Beardmore glacier
- Finding the source of the Nile
- Scaling Mount Everest
- Searching for Eldorado

Not so worrying trek:
- Travelling on the Transpennine Express
- Driving on the M62
 

Grumpy

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This is an off-topic rant but it illustrates the ridiculous nature of trying to bring Leeds Bradford airport into any public transport network.

The best location fo a 'Yorkshire' airport would have been Church Fenton where a station could use existing train services to Hull, Doncaster, Peterborough, London, Leeds, Sheffield, Derby, Birmingham, Bristol, the South West, Oxford, Reading, Bournemouth, Manchester city and airport, Liverpool, Blackburn, Preston, Blackpool, York, Scarborough, Middlesborough, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness. Plus either direct or with a simple connection to nearly all local services within Yorkshire or even the north of England. Then in future add in the eastern arm of HS2 and HS3 to provide the 'Schiphol' of the UK's airports.

And a few miles of link road connects into the A1M and M1, themselves connecting into the M62.

This sort of blunder is why we need a sensible national transport policy.
Difficult to reconcile "sensible national transport policy" with prospective airline passengers travelling by rail to Church Fenton from the likes of Edinburgh, Bristol etc

Worrying trek:
- Climbing the Beardmore glacier
- Finding the source of the Nile
- Scaling Mount Everest
- Searching for Eldorado

Not so worrying trek:
- Travelling on the Transpennine Express
- Driving on the M62
Presumably you've no experience of using the M62 or TPE when you've a flight to catch. When the motorway grinds to a halt or the train doesn't turn up and you're stuck with the remaining time to last check-in ebbing away then it's natural to worry.
 
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AndrewE

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Presumably you've no experience of using the M62 or TPE when you've a flight to catch. When the motorway grinds to a halt or the train doesn't turn up and you're stuck with the remaining time to last check-in ebbing away then it's natural to worry.
It's a bit odd to propose lots of little regional airports because you can then guarantee getting to them for your flight... presumably you live within walking distance of the one you are planning to use.
My solution would be the minimum number of airports which is practicable all served by a really reliable 24-hour railway.
 

Bigman

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Now that the new terminal building has finally been approved late last night, we might actually see the parkway station get a move on now.
 

quantinghome

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Presumably you've no experience of using the M62 or TPE when you've a flight to catch. When the motorway grinds to a halt or the train doesn't turn up and you're stuck with the remaining time to last check-in ebbing away then it's natural to worry.
Enough to learn that it's inevitable. But it's not something I can control and I'm learning that things I can't control are things I shouldn't worry about.

Point is even if Leeds expands it will never provide anywhere near the variety of destinations that Manchester does. LBA has grown massively since the advent of low cost airlines, but so has Manchester and before Covid hit more Yorkshire folk than ever were taking the journey over or through the Pennines to get flights. The planned expansion of LBA will not fundamentally alter this. Any clawback LBA achieves from Manchester will be outweighed by Manchester's further expansion.
 

Halifaxlad

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Dyneley Arms (the junction where the A658 and A660 meet north of Leeds Bradford Airport for readers who don’t recognise the location) is not brilliant for that manoeuvre. It is receiving an upgrade, which is expected to include a right turn lane for those travelling from Otley towards Leeds-Bradford.

Thanks for that, that's very interesting to know!
 

Glenn1969

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I think LBA needs Jet2 to survive the pandemic. If it were to go how many of the routes would be taken up by other airlines. So until this is known maybe the Parkway station and the new terminal are premature?
 

Halifaxlad

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I think LBA needs Jet2 to survive the pandemic. If it were to go how many of the routes would be taken up by other airlines. So until this is known maybe the Parkway station and the new terminal are premature?

I do imagine they're is a good chance LBA collapsing which is another reason why I don't believe in spending 40 odd million on a single station. If it was Horsforth that pre-covid dealt with over a million users every year, then at least if it flops no-one would be any the wiser!
 

Halish Railway

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I do imagine they're is a good chance LBA collapsing which is another reason why I don't believe in spending 40 odd million on a single station. If it was Horsforth that pre-covid dealt with over a million users every year, then at least if it flops no-one would be any the wiser!
Alternatively it could be used as a ‘Bramhope Parkway’, provided that better road links are provided, something that could receive approval given the large housing development on the eastern edge of Bramhope.
 

charley_17/7

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If TfL get desperate for funds, Boris' Dangleway might become available for a knock down price. However would defeat the object by making it even more difficult for aircraft landing/take-off.

In all the years I lived, studied and worked in West Yorkshire, I never used it once.

Tried Doncaster/Sheffield once, but the bus connection felt like it took forever.

Much prefer using airports with proper rail connections (Manchester, Birmingham, Thiefrow, Gatwick). Low cost shouldn't necessarily mean crap access.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Alternatively it could be used as a ‘Bramhope Parkway’, provided that better road links are provided, something that could receive approval given the large housing development on the eastern edge of Bramhope.
Leeds council need to start being honest about their aspirations. A station on the existing network will be useless for the airport, just as the White Rose station will be next to useless for the shopping centre (though in that case, uselessness is entirely appropriate).

When the mayoral elections come round, these projects will be something I'll be asking the candidates about. If they throw their weight behind these wasteful vanity projects they can kiss my vote goodbye... and I'm certain I'm not the only one.
 
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JKF

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A couple of decades back there was fairly serious talk of just building a new airport from scratch in the Aire Valley south of Leeds, partly because the existing airport was often hit by bad weather and has poor transport links. Might have been a proposal from the Development Coorporation which I think at that time was independent of local government. There is a lot of land around there and it’s quite good for possible road and rail links, maybe somewhere like the old power station site.
 

Bigman

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I have always wondered about a brand new purpose built airport in the Aire Valley from somewhere West of Woodlesford over towards Great Preston. This would of course put it slap bang next to the M1, and very close to the Leeds - Castleford line and proposed HS2B, so great for rail access too. A freight facility could be built, which would be close to the existing Freightliner facility at Stourton, so existing local freight handling to hand. The runway would also be pretty much West facing which would be ideal for landing and taking off into the wind. Sadly never going to happen due to the astronomical cost.
 
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