• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Possible Class 333 scrapped?

Status
Not open for further replies.

4REP

Member
Joined
16 Oct 2019
Messages
272
Location
Bingley
I have been told by a northern employee that 2 class 333 have been scrapped( I think withdrawn) can anyone find out or comfirm this? I Know there are issues with 009 and has been at Derby but also another 333 might have the same issue
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Liverpool 507

Member
Joined
17 Jan 2018
Messages
555
Location
Merseyside
I have been told by a northern employee that 2 class 333 have been scrapped( I think withdrawn) can anyone find out or comfirm this? I Know there are issues with 009 and has been at Derby but also another 333 might have the same issue

They’ve all just been refurbished so I doubt they would refurbish them all if some would be scrapped. 333009 is undergoing bogie bolster repairs at Derby RTC.
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,398
If this is true; any chance that it could have been a case of mistaken identity with a Class 332? Is it 332014 that has been the long-term demic?
 

Adam0984

Member
Joined
18 Feb 2014
Messages
1,073
Theres 009 at Derby hopefully not too long before it's back and a couple are on restricted movements because of bolster cracks that are monitored
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,192
Location
St Albans
Slightly OT, but the limited longevity of both the 332s and 333s doesn't bode well for CAF built multiple units, so the Civity's initial issues might not be entirely unrelated. The 333s have had less than 20 years in service so maybe scrapping might be a valid business strategy.
 

59CosG95

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2013
Messages
6,477
Location
Between Peterborough & Bedlington
Slightly OT, but the limited longevity of both the 332s and 333s doesn't bode well for CAF built multiple units, so the Civity's initial issues might not be entirely unrelated. The 333s have had less than 20 years in service so maybe scrapping might be a valid business strategy.
In the case of the 332s, they never had a mid-life overhaul in their life, so their plight isn't exactly surprising...
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,192
Location
St Albans
In the case of the 332s, they never had a mid-life overhaul in their life, so their plight isn't exactly surprising...
... and the 333s? They aren't doing that well, hence this thread's title.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,563
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The 332s aren't going because they're knackered, they are going because it is more operationally convenient to use different units and there's no real home for that type of EMU.
 

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,200
There's no home at all once ATP goes over to ECTS in the Heathrow Tunnels. They don't have TPWS fitted, and their interior is useless for anything that isn't their service.
 

Mollman

Established Member
Joined
21 Sep 2016
Messages
1,211
They might have got confused if the Christmas Tree unit at Neville Hill has been swapped around. Or as said elsewhere it was a 332 which is 'gifting' some spare parts for Northern's 333s.

The 332s and 333s have had their share of issues relating to fatigue but given how long certain DMUs have lasted and will be lasting with much worse issues I doubt they'd be looking to scrap them now.
 

cactustwirly

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
7,447
Location
UK
The 332s aren't going because they're knackered, they are going because it is more operationally convenient to use different units and there's no real home for that type of EMU.

They are apparently, not because they're badly built, but the 332s have been badly neglected by HEx.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,220
Mess room gossip was that 333s were to be replaced by a further order of 331s, but apparently the next stage of the 333 refurb with a new PIS/USB sockets is due to begin later this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me though if the worst few 333s were got rid of with a few replacement 331s instead, but I don't know if contracts etc would allow for that.
 

Halish Railway

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
1,692
Location
West Yorkshire / Birmingham
Mess room gossip was that 333s were to be replaced by a further order of 331s, but apparently the next stage of the 333 refurb with a new PIS/USB sockets is due to begin later this year. It wouldn't totally surprise me though if the worst few 333s were got rid of with a few replacement 331s instead, but I don't know if contracts etc would allow for that.
Hopefully the unit with the really unreliable doors will abscond. I’d be sad to see the 333s go as they’ve made themselves at home in Yorkshire. It looks like they’ll never make it to Doncaster.

As for the 331s, in they’re current guise they’re not suitable 333 replacements due to the decrease in seats.

Edit: New PIS? Does that mean that the current announcements are going?
 

Geeves

Established Member
Joined
6 Jan 2009
Messages
1,913
Location
Rochdale
Had a quick scan through Gemini earlier at work it didn't throw up many clues. 003 and 007 seemed to have been stopped for a while but it could just be that the information has not been updated.

Here's one at Doncaster Halish
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,424
Had a quick scan through Gemini earlier at work it didn't throw up many clues. 003 and 007 seemed to have been stopped for a while but it could just be that the information has not been updated.

Here's one at Doncaster Halish

Yeah going OT the 333s had a PM peak time Doncaster working for a few months 3/4 years ago. So they have been there (as illustrated)
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,220
Had a quick scan through Gemini earlier at work it didn't throw up many clues. 003 and 007 seemed to have been stopped for a while but it could just be that the information has not been updated.

Here's one at Doncaster Halish
Pretty sure I've worked those two fairly recently or so do I don't think they're stopped.

Hopefully the unit with the really unreliable doors will abscond. I’d be sad to see the 333s go as they’ve made themselves at home in Yorkshire. It looks like they’ll never make it to Doncaster.

As for the 331s, in they’re current guise they’re not suitable 333 replacements due to the decrease in seats.

Edit: New PIS? Does that mean that the current announcements are going?
I don't know any of them to be particularly noteworthy for being unreliable. They might have less seats, but they're pretty much being used interchangeably with 333s now the 32x have gone. I definitely prefer a 333 over a 331 though!
 

Evolution

Member
Joined
29 Jun 2016
Messages
229
Location
Manchester
If there’s structural issues with a couple of units it’s more than likely the rest will have similar issues. They’ve spent their life doing the same work pretty much.

I doubt the DFT would order another 16 331s, the more likely short-term solution would be to draft in the Class 365 Networkers. These are currently sat around at Crewe doing nothing.
 

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,220
I doubt the DFT would order another 16 331s, the more likely short-term solution would be to draft in the Class 365 Networkers. These are currently sat around at Crewe doing nothing.
You say that, but given the economics of not having to route clear a new type of traction, train crew and fitters on a different type of stock, carry a different set of spare parts etc. I would expect that if the 333s are going anywhere then it'll be more 331s that replace them.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
The 332s aren't going because they're knackered

No, the 332s are knackered, and HEx's treatment of them is a big part of the reason why. Cast your mind back a couple of years,when the whole fleet got parked up due to maintenance issues on the wheel sets, causing all sorts of fun on Connect.
 

alexl92

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
2,268
They’ve all just been refurbished so I doubt they would refurbish them all if some would be scrapped. 333009 is undergoing bogie bolster repairs at Derby RTC.
Does that include the one that was out of service for a couple of years being cannibalised for parts?
 

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
It's really not likely that the 333s are going anywhere though, is it? If the issues were significant enough to possibly withdraw them, they wouldn't have just put them all through a full repaint and interior refurbishment programme. The cracking issue seems to have been known about for some time so it's not something which has suddenly come to light.
 

Neptune

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
2,449
Location
Yorkshire
333009 is being repaired and once it is done and returned any other unit requiring attention will be repaired.

Hopefully the 332’s will be able to provide plenty of spare parts in the near future.

The 333’s are going nowhere for a while.
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,398
Hopefully the 332’s will be able to provide plenty of spare parts in the near future.

That would depend if Heathrow and Angel Trains come to an agreement for the Class 332s.
 

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,200
I wouldn't be surprised if they just go for scrap - any components can be bought off the scrap merchant by Angel/Northern if they're desperate.
 

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
North West
I was surprised that a few 332s didn't come to Leeds to replace 321/22s and supplement 333s. Then either fewer 331s would have needed building, or they could have replaced more 319s at this point.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,625
Location
Another planet...
I was surprised that a few 332s didn't come to Leeds to replace 321/22s and supplement 333s. Then either fewer 331s would have needed building, or they could have replaced more 319s at this point.
I wasn't surprised at all. As has been mentioned upthread the 332s have no TPWS so would need fitting, have an unconventional interior set-up that isn't really suitable for any Northern routes*, and are owned by Heathrow Airport rather than by a ROSCO. It's one of those things that seems to make sense at face value until you realise all the things that make it awkward. Their mechanical condition isn't said to be great either.

*= Nope, not even for the posh folk up Wharfedale, or the Cheshire set!
 

Neptune

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2018
Messages
2,449
Location
Yorkshire
I wasn't surprised at all. As has been mentioned upthread the 332s have no TPWS so would need fitting, have an unconventional interior set-up that isn't really suitable for any Northern routes*, and are owned by Heathrow Airport rather than by a ROSCO. It's one of those things that seems to make sense at face value until you realise all the things that make it awkward. Their mechanical condition isn't said to be great either.

*= Nope, not even for the posh folk up Wharfedale, or the Cheshire set!
Indeed the 14x332’s including 5x5 coach units would be ideal however, as mentioned many many times before there are just too many expensive problems to overcome including current availability to make them a viable option. In the long run the new build 331’s make far more sense even though I don’t personally believe they are the perfect unit for the routes.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
17,625
Location
Another planet...
Indeed the 14x332’s including 5x5 coach units would be ideal however, as mentioned many many times before there are just too many expensive problems to overcome including current availability to make them a viable option. In the long run the new build 331’s make far more sense even though I don’t personally believe they are the perfect unit for the routes.
Mechanically the 331s are the perfect unit for Northern commuter routes, with their fast acceleration and wide vestibules... unfortunately as the "Northern Connect" concept was flawed from the outset, the new units all came with a low-density interior which is entirely unsuitable for the Airedale and Wharfedale lines.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top