Possible New Avanti Seat Design

[superalbs]

I thought there was something from an EMR spokesperson that said "the seats will be unlike anything seen in the UK before", or am I just making that up?

Whether that's good or bad news, remains to be seen!

Thought that was Avanti who are certifying an entirely new design for their 80x?

I'm not sure I'd be that optimistic about them but am prepared to be surprised! At the moment, the FISA LEAN is the best choice for new stock.

It's certainly a good seat. I am intrigued as to what Avanti will come up with; I'd be surprised if it was totally new, why would a TOC want to pay the huge cost of developing a totally new seat? But if it's good...

If it's good, it's 5 years too late, as we're stuck with the dross in the 80x fleets.

It seems odd that WorstGroup are doing it now, rather than for, say, the TPE and Hull 802s. I wonder what their East Coast open access operation will use?

I think they may be the "unlike anything seen before" that @superalbs was thinking about. Details are still rather thin on the ground for those though

I suppose that the 802s being options from the GWR order may have tied their hand in terms of the amount of changes they could make - that and to some extent a rush to get them into service ASAP amid the general shortage of stock that was developing last year

That could well be the case, and why they are not so popular on SWR. It will be interesting to see what they come up with for the 158/159 fleet - Will they chose to replace all of the seats with the LEAN, replace the large and comfortable Primarius seats in First, or come up with something completely different. From my experience, they just feel too firm and rather more upright - the latter is a symptom of the seat, the former the specification.



Ah yes, that's true. I had forgotten about the metal Lazzerini seats (and their rather generous spacing / First Class style armrests). Looking at the pictures between the two, I can see how little LM actually changed during their refurbishment, nothing more than carpets and covers refurb. So standardising the fleet does in this case make sense. Good news for anyone wanting a load of Chapman seats for any upcoming refurbishments!

Central Trains Turbostar Interior

Explore Matthew Black's 21359 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

London Midland Class 170/6 Standard class interior - 170631, 04/06/2010

Explore Lee37427Stratford30A's 48548 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

There was a prototype image floating around the internet recently - I'll see if it can find it. It's quite, for a First Group UK Franchise, surprising and rather European. I'm not sure who manufacturers it - I'm sure someone on here will be able to work it out!

Found it. I wonder if, if Avanti can secure certification for 125MPH use, we may see it come across to EMR as well? (Seat in the foreground appears to also be a LEAN, a SOPHIA in the background next to Transcal Rail’s Night Rivieria seat).

BORCAD Flexio, I used it in Slovakia a few weeks ago. To be honest, that's pretty impressive for a second class UK seat. Wow!

EDIT: That actually appears to be in the ZSSK colours as well, so maybe that's not right. What's the source of that please, I'd love to research it.

Only concern I'd have is the "wings" being too low down for tall people.

Intriguing, as the comment below it said it was similar to both Go-North West and Avanti WCs new Moquette. I can’t remember which Facebook page it appeared on but the words Pendolino refurbishment and in London were used I’m afraid!

Starting a new thread following the light of a ZSSK seat image, which is said to be something to do with Avanti's new seat design.

 

[Energy]

It looks good, especially the tray table on their website. I wouldn't be so sure though as Facebook isn't the greatest of sources, especially when it looks to be another companies seat...

 

[LOL The Irony]

They're very European looking. Can't tell whether that's a good thing yet (although if the Grammer IC3000 is anything to go by, they should be good).

 

[Trackman]

Starting a new thread following the light of a ZSSK seat image, which is said to be something to do with Avanti's new seat design.

Is there a link to said image?

 

[fgwrich]

Is there a link to said image?

If the original image didn’t copy over, here it is. Although I saw it from Facebook, it was suggested that these were being trialled / looked at. There’s a Sophia, Lean and Transcal Night Riviera all in the background.

 

[HarryL]

Those don't look too bad to be honest, the headrest design is something you don't see much on British trains. A whole carriage of them in that full moquette might be a bit jarring though, they should do what they did with TPE and have leather head rests to break it up a bit.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think they look comfortable but they look like create a more claustrophobic feel because they’re rather big and tall, especially the headrest

Disappointed to see armrests only on the aisle side and in between. Window armrests are needed. I hoped the refurbishment would give them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s almost definitely Avanti moquette though

 

[superalbs]

Those don't look too bad to be honest, the headrest design is something you don't see much on British trains. A whole carriage of them in that full moquette might be a bit jarring though, they should do what they did with TPE and have leather head rests to break it up a bit.

The moquette is a regular ZSSK design.

 

[fgwrich]

The moquette is a regular ZSSK design.

I wonder if Go North West had realised this when they came up with their own.

Go North West 37290 (MX07BTF)

Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini This is the very first vehicle to showcase the new interior moquette of Go North West

www.flickr.com

 

[HarryL]

The moquette is a regular ZSSK design.

Ah, I missed that part, thanks. It's a popular design then, I wasn't aware it was used on buses too.

 

[superalbs]

I wonder if Go North West had realised this when they came up with their own.

Go North West 37290 (MX07BTF)

Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini This is the very first vehicle to showcase the new interior moquette of Go North West

www.flickr.com

That's similar, but not identical...

Ah, I missed that part, thanks. It's a popular design then, I wasn't aware it was used on buses too.

...as shown here, this is some Škoda unit in Slovakia.

https://www.zssk.sk/fileadmin/dokumenty/Fotografie/EJ_pre_Zilinu/Nova_jednotka_ZSSK_radu_660_na_skusobnom_okruhu_interier3.JPG

 

[HarryL]

That does make me question Avanti's design originality then given their Voyager refurbs are very similar to that in a number of ways, moquette, orange theme and black walls.

That train does indicate my point about leather headrests breaking up an otherwise jarring design quite well though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does make me question Avanti's design originality then given their Voyager refurbs are very similar to that in a number of ways, moquette, orange theme and black walls.

Not sure that's all that important provided it looks nice A grey pattern with colour highlights isn't new, anyway; Abellio favour that as well.

That train does indicate my point about leather headrests breaking up an otherwise jarring design quite well though.

Not bright orange, though, please!

FWIW, LNR have done it "on the cheap" by using a different moquette pattern and plain colour, works well enough.

 

[Rob F]

I like the bright orange! Maybe because when I was a child I always lusted after travelling first class in an HST and we never did.

 

[Skie]

Merseytravel on the other hand have mixed and matched seat design and seat padding for their 777 fleet, after having passenger groups test a load out and choosing the favourites. It’s totally possible to get decent seats, just more involved a process than picking the cheapest one from a list...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseytravel on the other hand have mixed and matched seat design and seat padding for their 777 fleet, after having passenger groups test a load out and choosing the favourites. It’s totally possible to get decent seats, just more involved a process than picking the cheapest one from a list...

"Decent"? Excuse me while I have a laugh - those seats are terribly designed, with a sticky-out bit of headrest that presses into the back of the shoulders of anyone more than kid-height. Truly awful. Such a small design change needed to avoid the problem (which I pointed out when I tried one in the mock-up), too. Also they've gone very narrow and up against the wall for additional standee capacity, but that means back to the days of the original 50x layout and sitting pressed up against someone.

Similarly, I'm quite concerned about the headrest wings on the Avanti seats being too low down, meaning I can only sit in them if I slouch. That was an issue in the old "winged" Mk2 seating, too. Less pronounced "wings" as per the Grammer E3000 or even the Fainsa Sophia (there you go, there's one good thing about it) accommodate that better.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Does anyone have a link to a press release or article where Avanti said they were going for a new seat design?

 

[ScottGallagher]

Does anyone have a link to a press release or article where Avanti said they were going for a new seat design?

I would link it but I've deleted my facebook, but if you go on the Avanti FB page there is a video from around February which was a live Q and A and Pendolino refurbishment came up and the manager being interviewed clearly stated it was a seat that no other TOC had at the time and she had seen a prototype. However that was then.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How much seating capacity would potentially be lost if all the seats actually lined up with the windows on Avanti stock?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How much seating capacity would potentially be lost if all the seats actually lined up with the windows on Avanti stock?

Reasonably easy to work that out as the windows are spaced for First Class.

See the attached seating plan. Coach E is a "full" Standard coach with a small bog, 76 seats, same as an InterCity-era Mk3 TSO. Coach G is the same but 1st and has 16 rows aligned to the 8 bodyside windows. You'd go 4 across for Standard so that would be 64 seats, same as a Mk2 but with a lot more legroom. So you would lose roughly 12 seats per full coach, which is quite a lot!

However, the alignment could be improved with a bit of thought, e.g. not putting luggage racks against windows, instead putting those against "blanks" and sizing them to reset the alignment.

 

[bramling]

If the original image didn’t copy over, here it is. Although I saw it from Facebook, it was suggested that these were being trialled / looked at. There’s a Sophia, Lean and Transcal Night Riviera all in the background.

What are they trying to do, recreate the old Mk2s?

Seriously, I’m not sure what’s wrong with the current seats. No one seems to moan about them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What are they trying to do, recreate the old Mk2s?

I think people like headrests you can rest your head on to have a kip. The trouble is if they're too low down, as those look to be.

Seriously, I’m not sure what’s wrong with the current seats. No one seems to moan about them.

Exactly my thought - it just seems a waste of money. Knock the dents out, replace the foams and covers and you're done. It does seem a bit like the late-90s fad where a refurb had to mean new seats otherwise you weren't a proper private TOC (seemingly).

 

[43096]

What are they trying to do, recreate the old Mk2s?

Seriously, I’m not sure what’s wrong with the current seats. No one seems to moan about them.

I refer you to the post I made recently... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-390-refurbishment.211046/#post-4855569

 

[Bletchleyite]

I refer you to the post I made recently... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-390-refurbishment.211046/#post-4855569

There are only two things that I have heard criticised about the existing Pendolino seats other than on here, where people tend to be quite picky about seat choices.

1. The legroom (not a lot to do with the seat, though a thinner back would I suppose give a bit more, and indeed Avanti are claiming this for the new seats);
2. That irritating conduit that substitutes for a window-side armrest. I don't know what's in it, but it needs moving and a proper armrest fitting there instead as per the Voyagers. However that's not actually a problem with the seat, but the train.

 

[Domh245]

Exactly my thought - it just seems a waste of money. Knock the dents out, replace the foams and covers and you're done. It does seem a bit like the late-90s fad where a refurb had to mean new seats otherwise you weren't a proper private TOC (seemingly).

My only thought is if they want to have a consistent seat across both fleets, but it does feel a bit strange. The savings from a single set of cushions, and perceived benefit of a consistent offering across the fleets when you've got 23 80x and 56 pendolinos (and worse when you look at it in terms of vehicles - 574 to 135) seems marginal. Particularly as the existing seats generally aren't perceived as bad

 

[Wapps]

I may be imagining this, but I’m sure I read someone that’s it a complete refit of the interiors - ie they are not just replace the seats, but rebuilding the carriages on the inside (perhaps like what GNER did with the Mk IIIs and IVs). If that’s the case, the additional cost of new seat frames is probably relatively marginal.

 

[35B]

There are only two things that I have heard criticised about the existing Pendolino seats other than on here, where people tend to be quite picky about seat choices.

1. The legroom (not a lot to do with the seat, though a thinner back would I suppose give a bit more, and indeed Avanti are claiming this for the new seats);
2. That irritating conduit that substitutes for a window-side armrest. I don't know what's in it, but it needs moving and a proper armrest fitting there instead as per the Voyagers. However that's not actually a problem with the seat, but the train.

I’ve traveled very little on 390s, and work to keep it that way. The seats are torture, and over an hour sees me with several days of backache. That is regardless of whether in airline or table seats.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When travelling in standard it

There are only two things that I have heard criticised about the existing Pendolino seats other than on here, where people tend to be quite picky about seat choices.

1. The legroom (not a lot to do with the seat, though a thinner back would I suppose give a bit more, and indeed Avanti are claiming this for the new seats);
2. That irritating conduit that substitutes for a window-side armrest. I don't know what's in it, but it needs moving and a proper armrest fitting there instead as per the Voyagers. However that's not actually a problem with the seat, but the train.

The window-side blob that means no room for an armrest is their greatest flaw IMO. Needs moving

 

[Bletchleyite]

I may be imagining this, but I’m sure I read someone that’s it a complete refit of the interiors - ie they are not just replace the seats, but rebuilding the carriages on the inside (perhaps like what GNER did with the Mk IIIs and IVs). If that’s the case, the additional cost of new seat frames is probably relatively marginal.

No, I don't believe they are doing that - in particular I'm sure I recall it being said that they aren't rearranging the seating layout because moving the reservation displays is too much of a faff.