Post-brexit - time for a republic?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DerekC, 29 Aug 2019.

  1. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    Don't worry, on November 1st we'll be in a Banana Republic: given our great leader's obsession with bananas, there'll be no restriction on the size or straightness, though Pritti Patel will be very concerned about which countries they're coming from, so many will get turned back.
     
  2. anme

    anme Established Member

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    What do the majority want? DO NOT SAY BREXIT. Say what kind of brexit.
     
  3. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    Technical it's the majority of those who voted at that time and only on the question put to them.

    Since then people could have changed their minds (that goes either way, so it could lead to a larger majority for leave or a change to want to remain).

    However even that doesn't answer the question what do the majority want in terms of deal or no deal, and like the TV program we've had a large figure out in front of us as to what we may get. However no one knows what will be the outcome will actually be. The closer to the end the easier it is to see what we could be left with, but no certainty until it is over.

    As to whether or not we should have a republic, the problem with bringing one in because of a crisis is that the written Constitution would likely have elements designed to stop such a crisis from happening again. However this could have far reaching consequences, for instance the USA's rules about gun ownership is based on there being no standing army (so that the president couldn't have the control which the British King had displayed). However it now causes problems with regards to what if any controls there should/shouldn't be.

    Although the Queen doesn't use her power; she is still a useful instrument with regards to checks and balances in that if a PM lost it and started doing crazy things, for instance becoming like a dictator, there could be ways in which she could act.

    You also have to bear in mind what will happen to the Crown Estate. In that currently 25% of the income from it goes to funding the royal household. Now a fair chunk of that would still be needed for the upkeep of the Royal Palaces.

    Assuming that the royal family were asked to move out (and they have their own private property which they could live in) a lot of those costs would still be needed.

    Then you've got to consider the work which the President would then do, and where their official residence would be, with all the costs associated with that.

    As such it's unlikely that the costs would be much different.
     
  4. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There is no way anyone can reasonably argue the majority of people want a no-deal Brexit!
     
  5. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    Absolutely. This was something heavily discussed at my work today, and the general feeling was that whatever the views of the current situation (and to be fair most were cautiously content with what Boris has done), the prospect of the potential alternative is *far* worse. Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, Sturgeon, Swinson, Lucas - easy to see why this doesn’t appeal.
     
  6. GrimShady

    GrimShady Established Member

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    Equally just as useless.
     
  7. Tracked

    Tracked Member

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    Now we've establised they've not much influence over the running of the country can we not privatise them? seeing as most other things have been. I can think of several inefficiences (Prince Andrew, for example) that a modern streamlined Royal Family under private ownership could deal with more effectively than the current state owned operation is doing. They could then go into competition with them two off Love Island, is Mike Ashley interested? The Duke and Duchess of Lonsdale has a certain ring to it ...;)
     
  8. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    I just think the Tory 'rebels' will bottle it.
     
  9. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    With a working majority of 1 you don't need many who thick that no deal and/or Boris is a bad idea who look like they are unlikely to win their seat at the next election (especially given the risk of the Brexit Party splitting the core Tory vote and to some extent the Labour vote which could hand seats to the Libdems/Greens especially given that their supporters are more accustomed to tactical voting) to do something crazy.

    We've already had a number of defections, you just need someone who is thinking of retiring to defect before parliament returns and things could become even more interesting. If the DUP saw that the Tory party may not be able to, even with their support, hold onto power could they withdraw their support.

    Which leads to the question of would the DUP activity support the Tories if it was going to result in there being difficulties on the issue of the Irish boarder which could result in something which looks more like an United Ireland and further away from the rest of the UK?
     
  10. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    It never comes to anything though.
     
  11. nidave

    nidave Member

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    Rubbish. Mps have chanced thier minds over and over again on brexit based on facts as they see them(or more likely what keeps them in a job) what sort of brexit did everyone vote for and is it still the same brexit they want now?? Asking the people to confirm what they actually want based on facts and new information seems to be an afront to democracy or something.
     
  12. nidave

    nidave Member

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    So if the the people want 0% tax and fully funded public services the mps have to do thier best to give it to them?

    What about the people who want one thing and those who want the opposite. (not including those who want a 3rd option) what do mps do.

    Do they do what's best for the people who voted for them, the best for themselves or what's best for the country. Do they follow the majority even if its going to cause the people pain and suffering or make them homeless and broke for example?

    For every person who wants something there will be a significant number who want something else.
     
    Last edited: 30 Aug 2019
  13. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    Well, they're the only other party to have welcomed the Prime Minister's decision to prorogue and go for a Queen's Speech in October. That would indicate that they're happy enough for the time being.

    (They also said they looked forward to discussing the PM's future policy plans and whether they could support them, but that sounds like a prelude to future negotiations to me.)
     
  14. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    We don't sit here saying, well Tony Blair won the election in 1997 or Margaret Thatcher won the election in 1979 or even the result of the referendum to go into what became the EU so we should stick with what the people said then as it was the will of the people.

    Sorry but the people are fickle and so have this annoying habit of changing their minds, if they fully thought through the all the possible consequences of what they voted for in the first place. As an example, who when voting to join what had become the EU every thought that it would be like it is today? Probably very few, in the same way probably fairly few actually thought that we'd be in the mess that we're now in who voted to leave (although there's probably some very snug remainers who are sitting there going "I told you so").
     
  15. The Ham

    The Ham Established Member

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    However we have been blessed with living in interesting times, so I'd suggest that all bets are off.
     
  16. nidave

    nidave Member

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    So mp's are the only one to be allowed to change thier minds about things before it's enacted and the people have to wait until after the brown stuff hits the fan?? Is that it?

    What 8f you didn't agree with the decision.. Would you be happy to be told to shut up especially if your life was badly impacted by said decision ??? Or are those who loose out supposed to shut up and take it like a big boy or girl? ??

    why not give them a chance to see if they still want more of the mess we're in now or if they have decided something different (like keeping thier job) is more important???
     
  17. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    We shall see what we shall see.
     
  18. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

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    Give an inch, next time he takes a mile.
    Take this shutdown as a tester, if he gets away with it, it emboldens him to try again, for a longer period.
     
  19. anme

    anme Established Member

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    Leavers don't want another referendum because they are scared they will lose. That's one reason why they are in such a mess. They are too terrified to ask the people what they meant by "leave" because the people will probably say "actually we want to remain", or "stay in the single market and keep freedom of movement".
     
  20. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    Sorry but nobody voted to join the EU, all the government of the day did was to offer a vote to REMAIN in the EU 2 years after dragging the UK into it, that isn’t democratic but rather rubber stamping a decision already taken.
     
  21. Aictos

    Aictos On Moderation

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    The only reason Remain want a second vote is because it wasn’t the result they expected was going to happened.

    Nothing to do with Leave being scared of losing a second vote.
     
  22. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    Since CUK will never vote for an early general election the effective working majority is much larger than 1.
     
  23. anme

    anme Established Member

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    I am not sure that's true, but some tory MPs may vote for an early election to stop a no deal brexit, so the outcome of a confidence vote is hard to predict.
     
  24. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    A couple of weeks ago there was a strong feeling that many people on the centre and moderate right who were unhappy with no deal would be even more unhappy with putting Corby in No10, even temporarily. However I think this is now changing with Boris's provocative actions including the risk of dragging the Queen into a political crisis (and dragging this thread somewhere near on topic...).
     
  25. krus_aragon

    krus_aragon Established Member

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    It might be easier to move Downing St the hundred-odd miles north to Corby ;)
     
  26. PaulHarding150

    PaulHarding150 Member

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    This Tweet from a man who knows what he's talking about should be read in conjunction with recent events:
    https://twitter.com/Gus_ODonnell/status/1166976096191094784

    what do you think the Brexiteers (of which I'm not one, but I'm still convinced 50%+ of the country are) would have said if the Queen had refused the request?
     
  27. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    Good idea. They're about to get a decent electric train service...
     
  28. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    I'm no fan of Ruth Davidson, but under her leadership the Tories have gone from 15 to 31 MSPs and just 1 MP to 13, and shattered the old no-Tories-in-Scotland adage.
     
  29. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    I think there would have been some pretty meaningless noise from a minority of Brexiteers about how the monarchy should be abolished, just as at the moment there is the same noise from a minority of Remainers.

    Personally I'd have "enjoyed" the news breakdown over the "constitutional crisis", but in terms of what actually happens, as a Leaver, I don't think it would have had any material effect on Brexit.
     
  30. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Neither of those are true statements. The monarch can refuse to follow her Prime Minister's advice, and the Privy Council can give her advice that differs from the PM. It is, however, very unlikely to ever happen since it would trigger a constitutional crisis the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 1640s.
     

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