Post Crossrail, track between Stratford and Liverpool Street

[uey0293]

Hi all, first post for me!

Question to any of you that may know, but I'm interested in finding out what will happen to the track that the stopping services (now being run by TFL) use between Liverpool Street and Stratford, as well as the platforms they occupy at Liverpool Street.

My understanding is that Crossrail trains will exit the tunnel just before Stratford (at Pudding Mill Lane?) and then operate as they do currently from Stratford onwards to Shenfield, but that leaves two tracks "unoccupied" between Stratford and Liverpool Street, as well as the platforms (something like 15 to 18 I think).

Will Greater Anglia Mainline trains use the track and platforms for additional capacity do you think?

 

[rebmcr]

Will Greater Anglia Mainline trains use the track and platforms for additional capacity do you think?

Most probably, yes.

During the peaks there will still be Shenfield-Liverpool Street services operated by Class 345 trains that do not use the tunnels at all.

 

[PeterC]

My understanding is that GA is taking all the released capacity.

 

[uey0293]

Thought so, interesting! Thanks for your replies both of you.

 

[306024]

That's roughly it. However it requires Bow Junction to be remodelled to provide parallel moves for up and down trains. Currently it is a single lead junction.

 

[theking]

Already answered above

 

[uey0293]

Nice summary on Wikipedia's entry for Liverpool Street too which I hadn't thought to look for!

"The six off-peak trains per hour that currently form the TfL Rail "metro" service from Shenfield will be doubled in frequency and diverted into the Crossrail tunnel after departing Stratford. Additionally a four train per hour peak-only service will be retained between Gidea Park and Liverpool Street into the existing terminus over the Great Eastern Main Line between Stratford and Liverpool Street (omitting Whitechapel). Once Crossrail opens, platform 18 at the main Liverpool Street station will be decommissioned to allow platforms 16 and 17 to be extended, enabling them to accommodate nine-carriage trains."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Street_station

 

[47421]

quick question about track at Bethnal Green at the moment - the link from the down main to Hackney Downs, ie turning left leaving LivSt round the back of the platform at Bethnal Green, has been severed, there is a new piece of continuous track on down main where line used to cross to get to Hackney Downs. Is that permanent does anyone know? The up line behind platform is still in use

 

[306024]

Probably just a cracked crossing that has temporarily been plain lined. NR maybe have to order a bespoke part to repair it. Temporary has lasted a while now though. Normally not much problem but it reduces flexibility for other engineering possessions.

 

[kaiser62]

Nice summary on Wikipedia's entry for Liverpool Street too which I hadn't thought to look for!

"The six off-peak trains per hour that currently form the TfL Rail "metro" service from Shenfield will be doubled in frequency and diverted into the Crossrail tunnel after departing Stratford. Additionally a four train per hour peak-only service will be retained between Gidea Park and Liverpool Street into the existing terminus over the Great Eastern Main Line between Stratford and Liverpool Street (omitting Whitechapel). Once Crossrail opens, platform 18 at the main Liverpool Street station will be decommissioned to allow platforms 16 and 17 to be extended, enabling them to accommodate nine-carriage trains."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Street_station

Just a small point, but as Whitechapel isn't on the GEML then it can only be omitted.

 

[Ianno87]

That's roughly it. However it requires Bow Junction to be remodelled to provide parallel moves for up and down trains. Currently it is a single lead junction.

I would imagine it would see some limited use as it does today to get odd main line trains to the higher numbered platforms - remodelling is necessary for extra trains per hour overall.

 

[Bald Rick]

I would imagine it would see some limited use as it does today to get odd main line trains to the higher numbered platforms - remodelling is necessary for extra trains per hour overall.

Not to mention resignalling from Stratford to Shenfield...

 

[306024]

There are all sorts of Grand Designs to try to take advantage of the capacity into Liverpool St that is released by Crossrail. They all require careful timetabling to maximise parallel moves over Bethnal Green and Bow Junctions though, never mind Liverpool St throat. Even then it could create more conflicting paths than exist today which wouldn’t be great for performance.

Liverpool St to Chelmsford was spotted last year on a list of schemes for the digital signalling revolution, but with no guarantee of being chosen and no timescale. May have fallen off the list by now.

 

[swt_passenger]

The 2011 London and SE RUS included a number of options for use of the Liverpool St approaches that basically allow for more mainline services in the high peak hours by using both up or both down lines, up to 28 tph max. Page 124, section about GEML

7.7.2 The following section provides analysis regarding how to respond to this gap, building on the previous recommendations described on the previous page. The aim is to increase main line service levels from today’s 23 trains in the busiest hour (24 trains if previous RUS recommendations are implemented in full) to a future 28 trains, utilising capacity at London Liverpool Street freed up by the implementation of the Crossrail Programme.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/resources/london-and-south-east-rus-3

 

[PeterC]

Just a small point, but as Whitechapel isn't on the GEML then it can only be omitted.

Or are they telling you that the GEML is the line that omits Whitechapel as opposed to the new line via Whitechapel and Liverpool Street?
I would hope that announcements and signage will make it clear that terminating at Liverpool Street are going to the Great Eastern station and omitting Whitechapel. The "everybody knows" school of publicity wouldn't do much to encourage new passengers.

 

[Busaholic]

Or are they telling you that the GEML is the line that omits Whitechapel as opposed to the new line via Whitechapel and Liverpool Street?
I would hope that announcements and signage will make it clear that terminating at Liverpool Street are going to the Great Eastern station and omitting Whitechapel. The "everybody knows" school of publicity wouldn't do much to encourage new passengers.

Good point.